(By the way, using the word 'spur' suddenly makes me think of model train
sets. Does anyone here have a nice, large model train set?)
You're right, we tangled not only over 'Libertarian' but 'Anarchy'.
As a matter of fact, I am fully for the preservation of language. Normally
I would totally agree with you that we should use 'Republican',
'Libertarian', 'Anarchist' and so on as their original meanings.
I think it was more in the heat of an argument on another line, and, I
didn't wanna get sidetracked.
As for 'anarchist', I lived in berlin for a year or so, you'll remember, so
I know a thing or two about anarchsists <;, (liking a punch-up with the
cops as much as the next guy <; ) and they are just as you describe them -
that's what the word means in Europe.
I _think_ though Im not sure, the word tends to be used more 'literaly' (?)
here in the US - ie, anarchy = a sort of, um, animal like, totally
rule-less type of way to pass the days. A bit like the World Wrestling
Federation free for all nites.
>i find your use of the word [anarchist] just a little bit
>sad, especially as america did give the world some of the best
>examples of anarchists and anarchist organizations ever:
To counter your fears, I do _not_ think that people in the states use
'anarchist' as a sort of laissez-faire capitalist code. I _*_think_*_
(althought I don't know for sure) that if you surveyed 1000 yanks on
Anarchist, they would say "those kids who paint As inside circles along
railway tracks and who dont want ANY cops or government at all"
(Which, as you point out, is nothing like in Europe, where anarchists are
redistributionists who additionally like to brawl with cops and still in
school until 35 <; )
BTW the Libertarian party and the pop-libertarian 'meme' if you will is
making great strides in the US. You can hardly watch a politcal TV show
without someone mouthing off about libertarian this or libertarian that,
she's libertarian, he's libertarian. (I am getting sick of hearing the word
and will soon switch support to the Natural Law party or something more
obscure.) In the New Hampshire primary (which is some sort of arcane step
towards the US presiodency) interestingly enough, the ONLY parties which
registered candidates were, the democrats and republicans (of course)
(about a dozen candidates each) and .. the LP, which registered 2
candidates. [Usually of course there are one or two independents and a
couple of other marginal parties - but this year only Dems, Repubs, and two
LP.]
>on Thu, 14 Dec JP, whom we all love, said:
>
>>[Aside / Footnote -- I am uninterested in arcane discussions on the "
>>[gasp] REAL " meaning of "Libertarian". Libertarian = the LP in the
>>states. This is no more mysterious or controversial than using the
>>word Democrat to mean the same ideas/party that Bill & Hillary are
>>members of. Saying 'Democrat' (the ordinary common usage) to mean
>>that particular party and those particular sort of ideals does not
>>ameliorate any "real" historical meaning of the word "democrat" -
>>same deal with 'Libertarian'. I know a couple of people here are
>>touchy about this <; ]
>
>as i said, i guess the one you're thinkin of being touchy about this
>is none other than me.... well, i can't remember being touchy about
>your use of the word liberal/libertarian (two different words, with
>the same origin btw) and if i have been (and i guess i have, after
>all, at least once?), i hereby apologize. i shouldn't have been ;-)
>i'm not a liberal, not in the ordinary common european use of the
>word, nor in the ordinary common american use of the word, so i
>really shouldn't care less.... what i h a v e been "touchy" about
>is the word "anarchist". (i do like your choice of the word "touchy"
>btw ;- )) i'm just a little bit tired of you americans turning that
>particular word into something meaning right-wing old-fashioned
>laisse-faire capitalist, when in fact the common use of the word
>anarchist in the rest of the world is as something like "libertarian,
>anti-state socialist". i find your use of the word just a little bit
>sad, especially as america did give the world some of the best
>examples of anarchists and anarchist organizations ever: people like
>Emma Goldman, Alexander Berkman, Joe Hill or the organizers of the
>WWW wouldn't have felt very comfortable in the company of modern
>american "anarcho"-capitalists... ;-)
>
>so that's what i've been "touchy" about, JP.....
>(but i promise not to mention it again, if that'll make you feel
>better?!)
>
>
>have a nice day :-)
>
>tb
>(who even tend to like some parts of the political platform of the
>american LP! after all they stole it from the left-wing anarchist ;-)
>and the libertarian right is much preferable to the religious-fascist
>american right after all!)
>
>
>* ----------------------------------------------- *
> \ Trond Buland \
> \ e-mail: trond.buland@ifim.sintef.no \
> \ phone:+47 73 59 25 65 home:+47 73 52 78 21 \
> * ---------------------------------------------- *
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OT 1.0.8 + FreePPP 1.0.2 = happiness (relatively speaking)