From - Wed Jan 14 17:31:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by mrco.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA12611; Thu, 4 Mar 93 01:39:45 EST Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA02991; Thu, 4 Mar 93 01:29:58 -0500 Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09502; Wed, 3 Mar 93 23:30:36 MST From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy) Message-Id: <9303040630.AA09502@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Subject: FutureCulture Digest #274 To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 23:30:35 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 17286 X-Lines: 413 X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #274 Wednesday, March 3rd 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- the next big thing Alpha and Omega update BBS ideas wanted followup Re: !mindgun Re: Methinks of an observation Re: the truth? Rudy Rucker The Net does not exist (fwd) the next Big Thang __________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Alpha and Omega update Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 19:14:30 EST From: Mitchell Porter i) A temporary alias now exists off which mail will be bounced during the 24 hour run.. ii) What I have planned is as follows: at hourly intervals I will post to the alias notes relevant to that particular chapter - information, scenarios, ideas, connections - and for an hour those of us participating will have a chance to discuss them in email and on IRC. Then I will send out the next lot, and so on. I don't expect that each hour will be dedicated solely to those exact topics, of course there will be flow as well as discontinuity, but it will provide some structure and pace to what happens... iii) As mentioned last time, the date will be around 9 March. I will shortly work out what times things will be happening, accordin to Universal Time... iv) Email me if you want in. [ie to be added to the 'mailing list'] ______________________________ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 93 16:42:02 PDT From: Subject: the next big thing Someone asked, what will the next big thing after Cyberpunk be? (... he said, in an attempt to make his babbling seem related to a previous topic.) Well, there was probably a time when having an automobile marked you as a member of some weird fringe group, fascinated by technology and innovation, eager to replace the perfectly serviceable horse with something new and exciting. People may have written articles about what kind of clothes these strange "horseless carriage people" wore, how they acted, and what strange jargon they used ("tire," "clutch," "steering wheel"). Some may have even been frightened by these eccentrics and their automobiles -- after all, the horses were, and animals have a sense about these things. But today having a car doesn't mean you like technology, it doesn't mean you're part of some mysterious group, it doesn't mean much of anything except that you're a typical American. Nearly everybody has one. So what. Eventually, some of the things that concern Cyberpunks may similarly evaporate by becoming ubiquitous. Not having an email address will be as strange as not having a postal address is today. Not using the Net will be like not using a TV or car. There won't be a special name for Cyberpunks because everyone will be one ... in a manner of speaking, since of course they still won't be as Cool as us ;). Other things will evaporate through impatience and boredom. Three or four years from now, when there *still* isn't realistic, affordable VR, some people will tire of waiting, and tire of hearing about pipe dreams. Remember AI? We were told how "any day now" we'd be communicating with our computers in spoken English, and the DWIMNWIS (Do what I mean, not what I say) interface would be common. Pretty soon we wouldn't even have to write programs anymore, since the computer could just figure out what we wanted and program itself . When that didn't happen, people got disillusioned with the whole field of AI, and companies stopped even using the buzzword "AI" in their products (which for a while had been rampant). They switched to terminology that made more modest claims, like "expert systems," and "knowledge databases." People will stop using the term "Virtual Reality" because it's too ridiculous and overblown. (I suggest the alternate, but unwieldy and unsexy phrase, "Somewhat Cooler Video Game Interfaces.") Instead they'll make more realistic claims like "3D rendering," "head-mounted displays," etc. Some companies are doing this already. Besides, true, indistinguishable-from-real-reality VR will *never* happen, and here's why: eventually a not too bad, kinda-sorta-like-real VR will happen and be wildly successful. People will love it. It will be everywhere. Then someone will start to work on true-ultimate VR. But it will cost a lot more, and it won't be backwards compatible. End of story. So whatever the next big thing is, I'd guess it will be something entirely unrelated. Like snorkeling in tubs full of Crystal Pepsi, or home oyster farming. ______________________________________________________ Tom Good = tomg@image.com ______________________________ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 17:16:45 PST From: tnelson@bellahs.com (Tom Nelson RD) Subject: Re: Methinks of an observation John Coryell asks: ]:Am I wrong, or isn't there also a listserv discussion group on the ]:writings of Wilson, Shea, et al.? Not that I'm trying to insinuate ] Yes, such a group exists.... I've not seen much discussion of Wilson etal on there though... It tends to be kinda like the SubG list, only not quite as lucid. Fnords (if my memory serves me... its been a while). Were words that were inserted into the text of news items in magazines and newspapers and in to books. People were trained not to see them conciously, but their presence would be sensed unfnordtunately on an unconcious level, this wou- ld create feelings of dread and unease. The trick was once you knew what to look fnord, and could see them, you wouldn't be affected by them any longer. (btw: there are Four fnords above) Murali responds: ] Nope - you're not wrong. There is a list/group set up for ]just such a purpose, fnord-l@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu, or the usenet ]newsgroup bit.listserv.fnord-l. Unfortunately, it's not been used ]much for its intended purpose - more of an Underground Literary thang ]for disturbed children. Ah, well...the only thing that will "save" it ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I beg your pardon! we are trying to come up with new ways of thinking thank you very much. You keep saying things like that and I'll be fnordced to stamp my little foot, run to my room and pout! ]is a sudden and abrupt influx of interest in the real topic... ] ]Murali ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas Nelson tnelson@bellahs.com ---------------------------------------------------+ tdark@wet.com .. Glistening highway mirage groans. The slick surface. Careening into fist the small mammal, and then screeching along the guard rail, scraping paint and throwing sparks like sheets of pure terror for 400 yards... - Sonic Youth ______________________________ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 20:58:35 -0500 From: "Chris" Subject: Re: the truth? > From: the! > > Well, I never said anything about truth. But, how about validity. Anyone > else currently enrolled in a first semestre logic course? ;-) Don't talk about Intro to Logic. I have an exam Monday, and I'm just now learning how to derive conclusions and all that. Hey, does anyone know if the language AL (Artificial Language) is a universal philosophy tool, or did my professor just invent it to dull my mind? And about validity, jeez if all the valid but untrue arguments in the history of Humankind came together it'd make a mighty BIG book. Of course, then someone would probably name it "the Bible" or "American History." Chris ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^(this is my sig.)^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ cmellow@well.sf.ca.us "From now on all my writings are fish-hooks...If nothing got caught I am not to blame. There were no fish..." -Friedrich Nietzsche ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ______________________________ Subject: The Net does not exist (fwd) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 21:11:48 EST From: Mitchell Porter > From c333@u.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 21:10:22 1993 > Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 18:20:34 -0800 > From: O.B.O. > Message-Id: <9303040220.AA176017@byron.u.washington.edu> > Sender: c333@byron.u.washington.edu > To: mitchell.porter@lambada.oit.unc.edu > Subject: The Net does not exist > > I was talking with a stainless steel rat last night, and she pointed out that > even in developed regions such as America, Australia and Europe, most people > don't know of the Net's existence. We had been discussing what constituted > psychosis - is it anything more than a break from _consensus_ reality? - and > whether there might one day be a psychological syndrome called "net.psychosis". > > Given that psychosis at the very least does involve a break with consensus > reality - believing in, and attaching importance to, something that other > people can't see and don't understand - and given that the Net does not exist > in the minds of most people... ______________________________ Date: 03 Mar 1993 20:56:45 -0600 (CST) From: "free agent .rez" Subject: the next Big Thang >tom >Eventually, some of the things that concern Cyberpunks may similarly >evaporate by becoming ubiquitous. Not having an email address will >be as strange as not having a postal address is today. Not using the >Net will be like not using a TV or car. There won't be a special >name for Cyberpunks because everyone will be one ... in a manner of >speaking, since of course they still won't be as Cool as us ;). hey, there tom, surely you mean "k001..." *DON'T'CHA?* *** ACTION: .rez eyes tom with Suspicion... :) ;) te he HEE! .rez, just enjoying this very moment right here now there it went here comes another right THERE >< ! ______________________________ From: jesse@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Jesse Davis) Subject: Re: !mindgun Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 22:52:56 EST Dazed N. Confused will someday say: - -citrus!csusac!picasso.ocis.temple.edu!jesse (Jesse Davis) writes: - -> ("Well, dammit, who would *you* cast -> as Molly?"). - - alt.* isn't part of usenet. Most people don't realize that. -But anyway.. - No, I hadn't realized that. But anyway... -> But relative signal-to-noise ratios, and the reasons behind -> them, make for interesting questions, IMO. -> So...I guess the question I'm asking is: are you really that -> upset with FC? The problem's easily solved... - - The problem really isn't all that easily solved. FC is -very interesting. I'm reading it almost as a magifying glass -into the psyche of the type of people who like to think -they're alt.cyberpunk. I don't like a lot of what goes over -FC because it's mostly ranting; but then again, you have to -know what the kids on the street are ranting about in order to -understand upcoming trends. - This is how I see it, with no personal offense to ahawks: -the people on the list are either in high school or beginning -college. These people are not thesis-writing types. Given -that, everything on the list is acceptable. But put the list -messages side by side with high-quality USENET and what mostly -comes out is the k00l=B1FF "do you see the memes in this -e-list?!! inf0rmation is phree! The cop-e of my cognitive -mind is existentially phloating free through cyberspace." Hmm...how can I put this...I think you're dead wrong. That statement is along the lines of saying "I think that the people in Pennsylvania are not thesis-writing types." The thing about FC is that it's awfully diverse; I myself am well on my way to a philosophy degree, with nearly enough credits for a minor in semantics, music composition, computer science, sociology, or math. I don't think I quite fit into the category of someone who's just discovered post-structuralism, say, or computers, or political philosophy, which would be the labels for most of your "cop-e of my..." comments. Sure, there are people on FC who have just discovered these things. But in general, they're bright people, they're bringing a fresh and original perspective to these issues, and I'm willing to help them through the things that they don't know, as they are with me. This is in rather striking contrast to, say, rec.sailing, where sure, the discussion is on a high level, but basic questions are not at all tolerated. - The b1ff filter stuff is not serious, I know, but it's -not needed, either. Gawd, how DO I explain all this stuff? -It's like reading _Seventeen_ magazine, and then reading _New -Yorker_. I dunno. It depresses me sometimes. But I'm hoping -FC will evolve. I'm not going to unsubscribe for the some of -the same reasons I sometimes watch _Hard Copy_. Underneath -the surface it's one huge comedy routine. - Keep this in mind: discussion on this level, as a routine event, *especially* by high-school and early-college students, is something that I suspect hasn't happened (or at least has been vastly the exception) since perhaps the decline of the roman empire. These people -- and I'm *proud* to count myself among them -- are hacking out a new kind of discourse, a new way of thinking, and a new way of living. That's not a claim you could make for more than one or two -- at most -- of the usenet groups you're clinging to and looking down at us from. Glad we're amusing you. Feel free (as far as I'm concerned; it's not like anyone's going to throw you off, this is also one of the first functional anarchies that's ever existed) to keep lurking. And maybe, just maybe, you'll pick something up. J. (ccing to future. i'd rather not talk about it behind its back.) ---Jon - - jon@vector0.SAC.CA.US Life is like a what? - DoD#2600 - Jesse. ______________________________ Date: 03 Mar 1993 22:24:56 -0600 (CST) From: "free agent .rez" Subject: followup >jesse >J. >(ccing to future. i'd rather not talk about it behind its back.) i concur; i did the same. citrus, when i consider that approx. 700 people recieve fc digest, and approx. 10,000 are gated to in some form... and then consider that of 200 real.timers about 30 post very regularly, it seems to me that there is plenty of latitude for any sort of change that is to be made. a place in virtuality is *precisely* what is made of it by those present. it's up to every li'l *I* on fc to do what said *I* will with it. forget it. i'll send you my thesis. .rez ______________________________ Subject: Rudy Rucker Date: Wed, 3 Mar 93 23:30:58 EST From: Mitchell Porter Does anyone have Rudy Rucker's email address? As I recall, celebrity email addresses were listed in an old edition of the FC FAQ, but they're not there any more - only the names.. People interested in RR's work might want to look upvolume 124 of "Contemporary Authors", which carries an interview. One of the things I learned from Rucker's entry in this biographical series is that he is a member of the Church of the SubGenius ... ______________________________ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 93 22:56:55 MST From: Juggler Subject: BBS ideas wanted I run a BBS here in the great southwest and just re-formatted the ol' hard drive. I'm starting the BBS all over. I was the 1st one in town to offer "cyberpunk" and future-culture (tm) texts and message bases. But now that I am beginning again (if one can do such a thing...) I am looking for some interesting ideas on message and file bases. I had basic areas before, like music, technology, etc...Where I live, little is know about cyberpunk and Future-Culture(tm) so I need to keep it as sort of an educational type thing. Any ideas would be appreciated. I've been racking my brain, which is not such a good thing... -Juggler- --- Juggler IH23@utep.BITNET IH23%utep@utepvm.ep.utexas.edu Sysop of Three Ring Circus (915)564-0026 **"To tell you the truth i'm exactly what I want to be." - Beastie Boys Disclaimer: My school hates my opinion. _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________|