From - Wed Jan 14 17:31:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by mrco.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA11386; Tue, 2 Mar 93 20:00:10 EST Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA21573; Tue, 2 Mar 93 19:47:44 -0500 Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23275; Tue, 2 Mar 93 17:32:52 MST From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy) Message-Id: <9303030032.AA23275@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Subject: FutureCulture Digest #270 To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 17:32:22 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 34868 X-Lines: 875 X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #270 Tuesday, March 2nd 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- more on conspiracies "Alpha and Omega", revisited Creation of Mailing lists fast and dense Forwarded mail...[read] Information Freedom -- and -- Free Information (Usenet) Re: Basic question concerning aliases, forwarded mail, etc. Re: IRC forray/net.culture.evolving Re: to the vector the spoils Re: trance-formation security To avoid guilt jack off with left hand only while closing right I. __________________________________________________________________________ From: root@rmsdell.ftl.fl.us (Yanek Martinson) Subject: Creation of Mailing lists Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 06:42:15 -0500 (EST) > If I have an ordinary Unix account (with elm installed) which i would like > to use as an alias for a mailing list, until a proper mailing list alias > is set up, how hsould I do it? I think all it is that I want to do is > fiddle with something in .mailrc, so that every message which arrives at > "maillist-alias@wherever" gets forwarded to a certain group of people. I > am sure it is mindbogglingly simple to do this - but how does one do it? If you don't have root privileges on the system, you can't create a "maillist-alias". What you can do, with only regular access account, is this: If you have elm on your system, you most likely also have "filter", which comes with elm. So you can set it up to forward all messages that are sent to your regular address with some special keyword. Here's a sample setup. If you don't have 'filter', procmail and slocal can be used in a similar way. In .forward, put "|/usr/local/filter" (including the quotes). If filter is in a different place on your system, change the path accordingly. In filter's rules file (try man filter to find out where the file should be. It varies with versions of elm. In older versions it was $HOME/.filter_rules, now it seems to be .elm/filter-rules) put this: if ( subject "FOOBAR" ) then execute $HOME/foobar-send The spacing is important for some versions of filter. In $HOME/foobar-send: < $HOME/foobar-list xargs mail In $HOME/foobar-list, include all the addresses of subscribers, one address per line. That's it. Now anyone can send you mail with Subject: FOOBAR (It can be more, it just needs to contain the keyword, so it could be, for example, "FOOBAR: hello there") and the message will be forwarded to everyone on the list. -- Yanek Martinson yanek@novavax.nova.edu ______________________________ From: ahawks (x-perience) Subject: Forwarded mail...[read] Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:35:24 MST [please spread this far and wide] The dimension of sight and sound known as rdash@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Hello. My name is Raj. I'm publishing a 'local' "fringe culture" magazine in tabloid-size format. The idea is to promote the "new edge," etc. It's called "Chaos Review" and it actually encompasses more than just cyberpunk and the new edge. The contents include reviews of print (books, magazines, comics, graphic novels, etc.), frames (movies, tv, videos, laser disc), games (board and computer), sound (music, spoken word), fiction & poetry, art (portfolio of ink drawings). The reason is multi-fold. One, I want to promote writers and artists, plus, of course, the material reviewed (and technology -- I forgot to include that in the above list). Two, I want to donate 5-10% of the net profits from advertising to various humanitarian organizations [I know that some people say cyberpunks and new edgers are self-oriented, but I don't believe that's true for everyone]. Because I'm paying for the first two issues out of my part-time job, I won't be able to pay for contributions for awhile. However, I hope to collect the fiction, poetry, and art work into some sort of anthology (on a yearly basis) and try to get it published nationally. The royalties would go to contributors and some charities. The first issue's deadline is March 15, 1993. The printers will have it off the presses by April 1 or 2. For those interested, my background (brief) is as follows: 1) Introduced to computers in El Cerrito, California in '77 while my dad was taking a sabbatical at Berkeley. 2) Was a writer, photographer, and production volunteer at the Imprint (university of waterloo student paper) 3) Worked in Toronto for four years as computer consultant on databases and digital mapping 4) Came back to school to finished my BSc (had gotten tired of it and ran away to Toronto). Was a writer, photographer, and production volunteer at the Ontarion for one semester. Later a staff writer. 5) Have been a writer/reviewer at id Magazine (The Region's Guide to the Zeitgeist) since Sept 91. Also have been book editor, arts & entertainment editor, and most recently, assistant editor. 6) Starting "Chaos Review" because of an unstoppable desire to promote (some aspects of) the new edge and cyberpunk. Raj Kumar Dash rdash@snowhite.cis.uoguelph.ca -- andy ______________________________ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:34:37 PST From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin) Subject: Re: Basic question concerning aliases, forwarded mail, etc. put the following in your .mailrc alias true-mail-address@my.domian person1@wherever person2@wherever etc. __ __ / |\ / |\ / ||/ || / |/ || / /| /| || / / | //| || /_/ |_// |_|/ ____ / \ \ | /\ \ \ \ \/ \ \ \ /\ \ \ \ \ \/_/ \ \_\ \/_/ ____ / \_\ / /\ |_| \ \/ /_/_ \ __ \_\ \ \ \/_/ \ \_\ \/_/ __ /\ \ /\ \ | | \ \/ /_/_ \ __ \_\ \ \ \/_/ \ \_\ \/_/ o o o ______________________________ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 93 10:43:07 PDT From: Subject: more on conspiracies Let me update my previous post now that I've consulted with my legal experts. There are actually two elements to "conspiracy." Parties must agree to do and illegal act, and at least one of them must do an act which furthers or contributes to it somehow. The second half can consist of almost anything ... it's hard to say whether, for example, buying a map of Bolivia would be enough, to use yesterday's hypothetical. Let's move on to Illuminati-type conspiracies, which are a different thing altogether. I assume you're all familiar with Conway's game of Life, a cellular automata that enjoys many computer implementations. If you watch a session of Life "evolve," you may notice various "things" moving around, like the famous Glider. Now it's not as if groups of individual cells get together and decide ("conspire") to make a glider. They couldn't do this -- a single cell has no idea what a glider is, it only applies certain rules to determine whether to turn on or off. Gliders are a property of the whole system: the way the rules work, the way the board is layed out, and the initial state. I believe this is a good alternate way of looking at conspiracies. Some conspiracies may be properties of large systems of human beings, not plans conceived and carried out by individuals. Without any individual involved even being aware of what's going on, or making a conscious decision to contribute, the "conspiracy" may still emerge, much like the Glider. I'm not suggesting that people don't ever consciously plan and scheme and form conspiracies -- of course they do, I've done so myself. I'm just bringing up another way of looking at things. ---- Andy wonders if "how fast, how dense" is bullshit. Well, a Bud Dry commercial is plenty fast and dense, but that doesn't mean it does me any good. Does it make me smarter, happier, wealthier, more powerful, better able to deal with life? Cyberspace may well become full of very fast, very dense, worthless, vapid GOMINFO (Gomi = Japanese for "garbage", + info). Some would say it already is ... heh, heh. Beware the jubjub bird and shun the frumious bandersnatch. How do we eliminate the gominfo that wastes our time and drains our minds' processing power? With kill files? But gominfo is always taking new forms, always evading our antigreps and sliding into our minds before we can close the gate. Rucker is right that fast and dense will probably be increasingly important goals. But only the gullible would make fast and dense = good. ______________________________________________________ Tom Good = tomg@image.com ______________________________ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:54:05 -0800 From: clarka@netcom.com (Andrew Clark) Subject: Information Freedom -- and -- Free Information (Usenet) Wow: special today! Two responses for the price of one! > From: Kenneth McKenzie Wark > Subject: Phased and Defused > Where did cyberspace begin? An academic question. Personally i like > bruce Sterling's answer _ it began circa 1850 around Chicago - > where the first telegraph system went up. The idea that 'hackers' invented > cyberspace i find rather quaint. Actually, cyberspace began with writing. All we've been doing since the first person wrote some scribbles on a piece of rock is reducing net lag (by going to paper, sending messages to people, post offices, telegraphs, Internet, etc) and increasing information capacity (a rock doesn't hold much info, but paper holds more and electrons hold a LOT more) and organization (protocols for trading information-bearing rocks) > Re ethics: > If i steal Mr Dazed and Confused's car, i deprive him of the use of it. > If i steal a copy of Lotus 1-2-3 from him, what do i deprive him of? You deprive him of nothing. You deprive the makers of Lotus 1-2-3 recompense for their hard work in creating Lotus 1-2-3 for you to use. The way I see it, when I buy software I'm ackowledging that it provides a useful service to me. I use WordStar 5.0 at home; I paid for it. I've got Word Perfect *.? on my hard drive since a friend of mine loaded it up to print out a file he needed for class. Needless to say, I didn't pay for it. If you just take software and don't recompense the people who made it, they might not survive economically to make another piece of software (or upgrade your current version.) Most of what you see on the Net is not-for-profit; someone volunteered their time so that you could get the resource you just grabbed. I strongly favor shareware and freeware -- but I don't think that software for sale should be treated like freeware. This is the entire reason for copyright laws. Not all information is of equal value; an E-mail message like this one cost me fifteen minutes of my life. Lotus 1-2-3 cost an organization thousands of hours of paid labor, plus the brain sweat of dozens of people. > He still has it. But now i have it too. Information is qualitatively > different to other forms of property. My possession of it need not > deprive you of possession of it. This is one of the meanings of > "information wants to be free." That is a fundamental difference between physical property and intellectual property. Information can and should be freely transferred; but the people who created the information should receive fair market value for their work, or they'll simply stop working. Books, software, etc . . . information put into a neat little package has been created. It's usually taken from elsewhere (which is why plagarism rules are so strange -- you can borrow some info if you credit where you borrowed from, but you can't just take it.) > Of course my heart just bleeds and bleeds for Kitch Kapor and Bill Gates, > who have been so impoverished by this henious practice. They make lots and lots of dough of software. They earned it. If they price it too high, people will feel justified in stealing it. My personal attitude is: I pay for what I use. Others should too, but I'm not going to go out of my way to make them. I know that the government probably will for me, but then the government's a bit too powerful anyway . . . > Sterling's Hacker Crackdown will be avilable free (he sez) on the net > some time in November - about a year after its out in hardback. Hence > the solution to the cash nexus problem has to do with the speed of > information. You pay a premium to get it fast (in hardback) you get > a discount if you want it a bit slower (paperback) and now you can get > it extra slow and free. That's how it works. Information value doesn't just depend on accuracy and relevancy, it also depends on the time frame you get it within. # From: Peter Breton # Subject: Re: !mindgun > On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Dazed N. Confused wrote: > Let me flame a little bit here. How many have proclaimed > that *USENET* is going down the tubes, while e-lists are the > place to be? > On any *USENET* group, it is _required_ that you check > the FAQ =FIRST=. Does everyone need to start posting to this > list all their questions? "What is cyberpunk, I haven't > checked the FAQ yet." # ????!!!!!!???? # Do you actually *read* USENET????? Damn straight. Not all of it; USENET is a fire hose, I just try to catch the occasional drop or two without having my head blown off :) > I can't count the number of stupid assholes who post questions without > reading the FAQ. If you doubt it, read the alt.binary.* groups sometime... This is what kill files are for. Also, newsgroups vary in quality. The more esoteric the newsgroup is, the higher the quality seems to be. > As far as the "info wants to be free" thread goes, well, of course you > want to *get* info as cheap as possible, but get paid for putting it out. > That's capitalism for ya. Couldn't have said it better myself, but I tried about 30 lines north of here . . . > I checked out Sterling's "Hacker Crackdown" from the local library, > though I could also have borrowed it from a friend and read it. Both of > these hurt author's sales too... But you don't have the physical book to refer to. Most people buy books for convenience. Libraries and informal borrowing (plus used bookstores) are the el-cheapo ways of getting information now. Electronic access just adds another level of cheapness. > This isn't meant personally towards Mr. Porter, but > people proclaiming USENET==sewer really annoy me, when this > LIST is sometimes worse. # IMHO, most (but not all) times this list is better. Actually, I think both of you are right. It depends on the newsgroup. Alt.sex is a deathtrap for newbies. Alt.cyberpunk is middling; some content, some crap. Misc.emerg-services is pretty good, very little crap (if you're a paramedic.) Moderated newsgroups are usually the best, but you're seeing through one set of filters and lose some net.flavor. clarka@netcom.com Andrew Clark My ignorance is my own fault. :} "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!" | poli sci undergrad at UC San Diego, USA "Why? This is the Internet." | Yo! Exercise your rights or lose them. Congratulations, Bill Clinton! Get out of bed, the honeymoon is OVER! ______________________________ From: ahawks (x-perience) Subject: Re: trance-formation Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:10:35 MST The dimension of sight and sound known as David Alves: | |Last night I traveled down to Santa Cruz to attend the following, | |_______________________________________________________ | |Timothy Leary: Trance-Formation Session |________________________________________________________ | |He spoke slowly and left out a lot of normal sentence |structure but had a knack for choosing his words carefully and effectively. I would be very interested to hear if this was one of his "good" daze or "bad" daze...From what I have heard (and seen via TV) his thought consistency is chaotic off and on...For example, on that 48 Hours program on acid he seemed really with it, yet I saw a "book talk" show with him when he looked not.there....I wish I could see him on a regular basis and follow those patterns just to see if it's natural old age or if the acid really effects aging mindstreams.... |He said SC was hippest spot in galaxy etc and then said we were part of an |experiment tonight. He would count to 5 and the say CHAOS ON - the music and |vid would go full blast - CHAOS OFF - just him talking. No, chaos would have been if, in addition to the sightz and soundz, everyone bespoke a stream of consciousness simultaneously, individually, Leary included. |Memorable TIM LEARY catch phrase - EYEBALLS AND EARBALLS what about mouthballs and fingerballs and noseballs and.... |The TV generation started in the 50's when everyone had a TV in their house an |this programmed everyone to accept TV. When pong came along a new generation |was raised who became accustomed to breaking thru the TV wall. All of |cyberspace is an extension of pong. Hehe, this is traight out of the v-game adaption of Neuromancer. To get skills in Neuromancer (Gibson's Cyberspace) you have to pray at the Temple of Pong...Yes, techno-paganism is a very real entity..... |He was also fascinated by the style that TV is adopting - MTV fast, falshy |and above all CHAOTIC. The chaos is too much for the left brain to handle - |this opens up your right brain - the only way you can process the superfast |info - and then BAM a cold beer or an icy Coke. i don't see why it would be "fascinating"...it's natural progression of culture....and "too much chaos" is relative, and close-minded... you can never have too much chaos, you can only have a closed mind...believe me, anyone who's ever seen: * psychaos once again finds himself in the bowels of IRChaos gnows what I mean...it is frustrating, can be scary, bu can be overcome... through multiple IRC experiences I've learned where and whence the irchaos river flows, and now I think i do a decent job at gnowing when to surf and when to steer, so i don't end up having to bail... |A single image or product that is sortof a mini climax to a chaotic |brain massage. The use of rhythmic changes in the brightness and color |in a commercial along with the music help put you in a receptive trance. yes - hypothesis: video will soon reach the vizual equivalent of 120 beats per minute, that subconsciously tuned rhythmic climatrance state that equals a baby's heartbeat...the magical chord of infantile receptiveness... that state reached, you may find yourself buying "New, Un-Fresh-Scented, Environmentally Non-Receptive Luvs Poopy-Enhanced Recycled Disposable Diapers" (used plastic diapers). Semantics too is going towards 120 beats per minue. |[an experiment that I am fond of - turn on prime time |sitcom, turn off lights, mute the sound, look away from TV at walls - |it is pretty easy to tell when commercials come on. This of course |doesn't work witk MTV which is a 24hr commercial] It's like a strobe at times. Yes, 120 vizual beats per minute. |So the only way to beat this programming is to do it yourself and ultimately |this is how we will all communicate because it is so effective. Methinks you start this by acknowledgment, than acceptance, which you definiely seem on the road to, which is cool. |Well now all the lights come on and we start a Q&A session. Of course, |everyone is still half stunned by the whole display and an awkward |silence ensues. AARGH! "Stunned?!?!" maybe even "Shocked?!?!" bah! |Guy with roving mic springs up and jumps around the room. |Tim speaks for awhile and then the Q's start flowing a little more. |Bruce Eisner plugs something. |As more people start asking questions a girl asks the first |non-blow-sunshine-up-Tim-Leary's-ass Q and wierd vibe takes over. people let weird vibe take over, you mean, methinks. |[ok a little too much of a generalization there] |Her valid question was something like - |"what does any of this have to do with me, it seems exclusive, with all the | chaos in the world why would I want more?" Tim did an ok job except with |the chaos in the world part. Then tons of people wanted to ask Q's but Tim |says he has to go. Oh, oh, this is important to me....!! aargh, if you could get his exact response, it would be unbelievably groovy. Chaos must be experienced, not rationalzed, not understood, methinks, so, if Leary tried to *explain* "Why Chaos?" then I hereby decree: I decree here by "I hereby decree:" I hereby decree: Leary might not get it. |What was the experiment?? |other than a new jazzy multimedia lecture technique |[which I can't see of being much use, in say, my thesis defense. but anyway .. | |I think the experiment was all about how no one was prepared to ask any Q's |when the lights came on. Everyone was thoroughly tranced out. that is cool - "how do you respond to chaote"...Leary is doing Elektrik Rave Chaote Tests....(i've got tm on that one, cuz methinks it a good-e....but spread it freely if uze likez)... |Maybe the whole thing was a demo on how to beat someone into passivity. Then i |seems then to be more of a warning - BE AWARE PROGRAM YOURSELF Yeah, grok *Everything* in all lights that you know, that's a step towards the hyperreal. |This makes me wonder how valid his point is about everyone eventually |communicating with multi-media trance inducing commercials. IRC + ISDN, wow, I'm riding close to Leary's vibe without knowing it, uh-oh... |Do I really want to just beat my message into a tranced out super fast info |absorbing zombie who is unable to effectively respond?? That's not correct, because it implies power structures and such... I think what Leary may be refer-ing to is sending out your message at the same time everyone else is sending out their message...Everyone, big word...So, you are just as much the tranced out zombie absorbig super fast info as Everyone else.... see: = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = |Will this foster any useful discourse? Hmmm...here's what I find interesting about The Whole Thing: Leary is on the cyberspace tip for a *reason*. People think he's jumping bandwagons, but he's not, methinks. If Leary's thoughts are anywhere as close to mine as I think (hope) they might be, he (with or without *gnowing* it) might be trying to solve the equation: IRC + ISDN = I use IRC here as an example of what leary speaks about the chaos, the trance info-zombies, etc. ISDN here represents the Multimedia possibilities of the future, ie (Mtv + more interactive communitek) Ok, here we go - way coherent thought....Let's substitute "Here and now Cyberspace Communiteks" for IRC, and redo the equation: Here/Now Cyberspace Communiteks + Mtv-style + More Interactive Communitek = ????? Methinks that works quite well - there is the equation for the immediate future of an evolving infoculture. The Mtv-style variable seems "the odd man out" but I use it as a symbol to mean evolving towards the untapped consciousnesses.... Getting very primordial, the equation is something like: Community + Culture + Teknowledgy + Here and Now + Future = ? so you can work backwards from there if you don' *get_it*. (see? trying to help people grok it from the other direction).....;) All of this of course ties into things we've been talking about here reently, and I'll offer up: Usenet > Elists > IRC and "Everyone will have their own individual Mailing List" and "i want to restructure the infrastructures of the internet" and the schtuph about regrokking TV in dfferent lights all the time |I had a lot of fun. It would be interesting to hear comments. | |Dave Anybody tape it? BTW, how was Gensis et al? -- andy ______________________________ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 93 14:11 CST From: P30TMR8%NIU.BITNET@UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: To avoid guilt jack off with left hand only while closing right I. The world as we know it is a conspiracy of grace fiendisly designed to conn as into thinking that meaning is real and that it is possibl to become that which one may authentically be by learning to tap dan ce to that tune. Actually Ruby Keeler was an old bitch gone in the teeth created by p.k. dick in a moment of inspired desperation that decended upon him one dark night soul-wise. Imagine the DOVE angel dusted into a bird of prey and you've pretty much got what a lovly party all this was when it's your turn to be phil until you wise up and drop dead out of it. Ruby's Dead. Phil's dead. Life rambles on like a tale told by an idiot even with Shakespeare dead and Faulkner dead and James Brown out on parole. Eye feel good, Michael Roberts ______________________________ From: ahawks (x-perience) Subject: Re: IRC forray/net.culture.evolving Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:27:03 MST The dimension of sight and sound known as ghoast@gnu.ai.mit.edu: [refer-ing to IRC] |Not to say that I expected an especially warm reception, but I think the |environment has changed from an open to an inclusive community. Whatever. Th |is to say that I guess if I had been hanging about in IRC for the last month, |would have had easier access to these random peoples information (if they had |any, probably not), or at the least a more cordial referance to a more likely |source... who knows? go ahead, use the label, elitism. Those of us who were there at the formation (which continues to form) of #cIRCle talked about the riony of that, I think. And somebody (sorry, information wants to be kept anonymous) mentioned "will this give rise to #inner.cIRCle??? and then #inner.inner.cIRCle? (I think FreeSide said that, since he alwaze says schtuph like that, but I may be wrong) here's MHO: Elitism is a very easy label to associate with the net. It requires "special" knowledge, "special" tek, supposedly. I do agree, and I've said before that when increasing communitek, a natural outgrowth appears to be people leaning towards Individualization and Specialization. This goes back to that crap I wrote about The Edge and shit, people trying o define themselves Absolutely within the context of society. So, relative to the rest of the world, the Net may seem elitist. Rather, I think it's just a collection of people who are relatively "further" (relative, remember) along in their thought processes, and in the midst of that individualization/specialization theory are looking for more outlets and sources. Ie, people not content with whatever other communiteks existed for them previously, sans the net. elitism is a whiny word. those who use it to defame individuals and groups, imho, are those who are not ready or not wanting to see things in a certain light. the exclusivity aspect of elitism is bullshit. if you're there, you're *there*. i hope that makes sense, cuz tat's a key opint, but sense cannot be made it must be sensed (KingMsl ref). if you're not *there* it's only out of fear, and fear of the unknown is innate. however, when you get *there* it doesn't mean people suddenly stop in tat individualization/specializationg/defining process, thus the appearance that people are shutting other people out (they're just continuing to define themselves relative to a relatively closer group), thus the appearance of elitism. in other words, elitism, like evrything else, is relative. -- andy ______________________________ From: ahawks (x-perience) Subject: Re: to the vector the spoils Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:44:35 MST The dimension of sight and sound known as Kenneth McKenzie Wark again elightens us with words of wisdom, which I ahve removed to let them stand on their own. ("own", hahahe.language is weird..) |Andy want to know where the fc list is going: | |Andy, if you want me to NOT pass on stuff i will stop. My position is i |assume everything is shareright unless peple *explicitly* ask not to |be re-posted. Hehe, of *course* i don't mind it being spread, between which lines did you read the implication that I felt it should not be spread?!?! At any rate, I posted that after grokking the far-reaching potential of a feeling of "we're being watched". Nyx here has begun to gate lists, so I posted a big rant about the potential benefits/hazards and then it suddenly dawned on me the amount of addresses that begin "future@" in the user-lists...It's like, when you're at a party or something, talking to a person or two, you hear other people talking in the background, but you forge about the people who are listening. I was trying to get an idea of how many lurkers are here, in other wordz. Yet, immediately I received a response which said that ccasionaly a meme or two of FC-origin (well, relative origin) is transferred over another huge, far-reaching medium, radio. And I suddenyly realized I had completely forgot about the infinite mirrors, ie, it spreads far and wide, gets morphed, and gets back to FC, whence it is morphed, spread far and wide, remorphed, arises back on FC, etc, and the evolutinoary process continues ad infinitum, and in the conext of the standby "information wants to..." it is not only *completely* inane to try and grasp a numeric quantity under those circumstances, but it is *totally* dumb of me to think of it under those terms. Anyway, just the fact that nyx is gating mail-lists, and the potential idea of gating FC here on Nyx, which has 10,000 people, freaked me a bit when I wasn't thinking straight. Ironically, someone *else* brought up the idea of gating FC here at Nyx, and it was one of the first e-lists mentioned....That was weird... |Willard |the evil bastard | |(and yes, i have made some pretty extreme sacrifices to *become* Willard |- the shape-shift alone takes enormous effort. (They don't call me Slim |for nothin'!) Bryant the nice bastard Katie the bitch slut Gene the bald intellectual [s that him? Gene Shallit, or something like that? anywaze...] the last one's pretty good, methinks, hehee.... quite the opposite end of the spectrum... -- andy ______________________________ From: strake@coos.dartmouth.edu (strake) Subject: security Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 16:06:09 -0500 (EST) a request to all you folks out there. I am thinking of doing a research type paper on the internet and security. More to the point, I'm interested in how the internet users themselves view security. If internet and security strike some cord in you, please send me some email about your babblings. My goal is to get a general impression about how the people who use the net feel about the security measures that exist or may soon exist and whether or not they are a help or a hindrance to the net and its use. For the rest of you on a more specific note, here are some questions that hopefully will get your creative juices flowing. Do you think the internet is secure? What types of security measures would you like to see put in place? In an ideal world, how would security work? What would be protected? What kinds of measures would you need to gain access to the information? Should the DES be the standard for encryption? Do you think access should be restricted? (period, should all information just be free?) Do you like people who make anonymous postings? Should a human have _any_ part of the anonymous servers? What do you think of Hackers? Do you like them? Are the a benefit? What do you think of the NSA, FBI, CIA, and everything else government related? If you knew how to hack into your bank account and change the amount of money you had, would you? If you have an answer to one (or all or anything in the middle) of these questions please email me back with your answer. Help me pass my classes and graduate. *grin* -- strake@dartmouth.edu its not pop, its not coke, its not soda. where I'm from its a 'soedaher' ______________________________ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 14:57:42 -0700 From: = drow = Subject: fast and dense neutron stars are fast and dense, but not very enlightening. raw/processed data (faqs, resource lists, s3r10uS d1s(us10nz 0f 1mP0R+aNt Th`/nGz, etc) are spiffy, but they don't tell you much about the person or community behind them, just the computer and modem they use. not nearly as much as a good throat nugget thread, cDc200, or some other bit'o'gominfo (tm!). i think a lot of usenet is perceived as noise (and i'm not saying that a lot of it isn't, flamebaits and meetoo's and shit) because it really is big, a very accurate representation of the incredible diversity in the community it represents, one datastream under CPU, indivisible by zero. ooh, lookie! it's a digital watch! i'm going to go play now, cya! ______________________________ Subject: "Alpha and Omega", revisited Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 18:16:53 EST From: Mitchell Porter For all those who read about the Alpha and Omega book/event/etc project and were interested, I have set a tentative date of one week from today (9/3/93) as a "rehearsal/discussion" date. The idea is to have a 24hour period on IRC and in email, with each hour being set aside for one of the 24 chapters/episodes/themes.. I don't know if anyone else is interested and motivated enough to want to sit through even half of that, but if you think you might be interested, email me... (Also, if you don't know what I am talking about and want to know, email me and I can send you two information files...) As far as the email aspect goes, I will try to set up a temporary, mini-mailing list a few days before, so that people can discuss what's going to happen a few days in advance, and then interact in realtime in email [as well as IRC] during the 24hour period.. _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________|