From - Wed Jan 14 17:27:53 1998 Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by mrco.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA11021; Tue, 2 Mar 93 14:17:23 EST Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA06634; Tue, 2 Mar 93 14:11:35 -0500 Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04465; Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:30:44 MST From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy) Message-Id: <9303021830.AA04465@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Subject: FutureCulture Digest #269 To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:30:42 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 13684 X-Lines: 329 X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #269 Tuesday, March 2nd 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- Delivery Report (failure) for future@axion.bt.co.uk environment mud great idea....environmental mud for the children monitors on sid Phased and Defused Re: !mindgun re: free info, STEP RIGHT UP Re: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. __________________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 0:52:45 CST From: "M. Balzary The Flea" Subject: environment mud >From the cyberdeck of Is there anybody out there?... (FutureCulture e-list) ->i am thinking about setting up a mud that is directed toward the ->environment and to be used by 3rd to 6th graders. my vision of the mud ->is that the lil'mudders will be able to talk with the animals and plant ->trees and learn about the different environmental problems that are ->plaguing (sp) the planet. i need input. help. maybe this could be etc ... etc Check out the MUCK known as brazilian dreams. It is a MUCK (which is more of a VR environment than a MUD) patterned after the rain forest of brazil. Don't have the address on me right now, but I know that it is listed in the mud list in rec.games.mud.announce. --Brett Castillo ______________________________ From: postmaster@axion.bt.co.uk Subject: Delivery Report (failure) for future@axion.bt.co.uk Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:00:43 +0000 ------------------------------ Start of body part 1 This report relates to your message: Subject: , Message-ID: <9302262241.AA01606@nyx.cs.du.edu>, To: future@nyx.cs.du.edu (FutureCulture) of Fri, 26 Feb 1993 22:49:44 +0000 Your message was not delivered to future@axion.bt.co.uk for the following reason: Message timed out ***** The following information is directed towards the local administrator ***** and is not intended for the end user * * DR generated by: mta zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk * in /PRMD=UK.CO.BT/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/ * at Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:00:08 +0000 * * Converted to RFC 822 at zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk * at Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:00:44 +0000 * * Delivery Report Contents: * * Subject-Submission-Identifier: [/PRMD=UK.CO.BT/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/;<9302262241.AA01606@nyx.cs.du.ed] * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=UK.CO.BT/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/arrival Fri, 26 Feb 1993 22:49:44 +0000 action Relayed * Subject-Intermediate-Trace-Information: /PRMD=UK.CO.BT/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/arrival Fri, 26 Feb 1993 22:41:57 +0000 action Relayed * Content-Correlator: Subject: , * Message-ID: <9302262241.AA01606@nyx.cs.du.edu>, * To: future@nyx.cs.du.edu (FutureCulture)* Recipient-Info: future@axion.bt.co.uk, * /S=future/OU=Axion/O=BT Axion/PRMD=UK.CO.BT/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/; * FAILURE reason Unable-To-Transfer (1); * diagnostic Maximum-Time-Expired (5); * last trace (ia5 text (2)) Fri, 26 Feb 1993 22:41:57 +0000; * converted eits ia5 text (2); ****** End of administration information ------------------------------ Start of forwarded message 1 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by zaphod.axion.bt.co.uk with SMTP (PP) id ; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 22:49:46 +0000 Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA19954; Fri, 26 Feb 93 17:45:30 -0500 Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01606; Fri, 26 Feb 93 15:41:58 MST From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (freud is my mother) Message-Id: <9302262241.AA01606@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Subject: To: future@nyx.cs.du.edu (FutureCulture) Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 15:41:57 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] is it just me or, nevermind. it's me. - -- andy ------------------------------ End of forwarded message 1 ______________________________ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 23:30:05 +1100 From: Kenneth McKenzie Wark Subject: Phased and Defused Where did cyberspace begin? An academic question. Personally i like bruce Sterling's answer _ it began circa 1850 around Chicago - where the first telegraph system went up. The idea that 'hackers' invented cyberspace i find rather quaint. Re ethics: If i steal Mr Dazed and Confused's car, i deprive him of the use of it. If i steal a copy of Lotus 1-2-3 from him, what do i deprive him of? He still has it. But now i have it too. Information is qualitatively different to other forms of property. My possession of it need not deprive you of possession of it. This is one of the meanings of "information wants to be free." Of course my heart just bleeds and bleeds for Kitch Kapor and Bill Gates, who have been so impoverished by this henious practice. Sterling's Hacker Crackdown will be avilable free (he sez) on the net some time in November - about a year after its out in hardback. Hence the solution to the cash nexus problem has to do with the speed of information. You pay a premium to get it fast (in hardback) you get a discount if you want it a bit slower (paperback) and now you can get it extra slow and free. I can't speak for anyine else but personally i'm more anoyed by someone complaining about Mitchell Porter's info-request than the request. Mitchell is an info-sharing kinda guy. (Thanx for the faq!!!!) I'll happily answer him if its in my power. And i will tell you this !mindgun cannot be found in any faq. Remember folks you heard about it (almost) first on the f-c list. (If you'd been on System X here in Sydney you would have been even cooler and would have known about it for weeks, hahahah ;~} - and please don't add its address to any faqs. Some things want to be global by being local, and this i think is one of them, dig? "How fast are you how dense?" What i'd like to know is what this one means to people. If you don't want to clutter up the list with it then just e-mail me. I'm fascinated by how diverse a range of associations a simple slogan can have. Willard the evil bastard (in an evil mood) "Now here's what's happening in your world (even as we speak). ______________________________ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 15:30:39 +0200 From: laurit@mdata.fi (Digital CPO) Subject: Re: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. happy (happy zamboni), <9302221759.AA27193@ap.cl.msu.edu> wrote: > Has anyone browsed through the K12 newsgroups on Usenet? I did > so for the first time last night...and lo! Posts from "3rd grade > sysops", more requests for penpals than you ever could imagine.. > And muchmcuh more wierdness..._very young_ wierdness...As far as > I have been able to discern, suddenly a large amount of BBS's > linked to Usenet via fidonet are being used by elementary/middle/ > high schools...Does anyone have any more concrete information as > to what's up here? I will be very interested to see what these > kids turn out like in a few years. ..And since this is FC, I ask: > is this representative of a system that all pre-college schools > might be linked to in the [not far-]future? Hope not, all people around that age that I happen to know wouldn't post much else than `hey, fuck you too' stuff, but that's nprob. what meself would've been doing if I'd had a modem when i was that age, but aslong as the poor snobs stick to they're own newsgroups, fine by me. I would like to see "normal people" (anybody like 'at on dis list ? :) of that age on the net, would get the support (political) for services like e-mail/usenet in the "next generation". > -z > zamboni@ap.cl.msu. imagine.. > And muchmcuh more wierdness..._very young_ wierdness...As far as > I have been able to discern, suddenly a large amount of BBS's > linked to Usenet via fidonet are being used by elementary/middle/ > high schools...Does anyone have any more concrete information as > to what's up here? I will be very interested to see what these > kids turn out like in a few years. ..And since this is FC, I ask: > is this representative of a system that all pre-college ______________________________ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:45:57 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Breton Subject: Re: !mindgun On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Dazed N. Confused wrote: > Let me flame a little bit here. How many have proclaimed > that *USENET* is going down the tubes, while e-lists are the > place to be? > On any *USENET* group, it is _required_ that you check > the FAQ =FIRST=. Does everyone need to start posting to this > list all their questions? "What is cyberpunk, I haven't > checked the FAQ yet." ????!!!!!!???? Do you actually *read* USENET????? I can't count the number of stupid assholes who post questions without reading the FAQ. If you doubt it, read the alt.binary.* groups sometime... ("how do I view a GIF/JPEG? Sorry I haven't read the FAQ...." etc etc ): it can actually make you nauseous. As far as the "info wants to be free" thread goes, well, of course you want to *get* info as cheap as possible, but get paid for putting it out. That's capitalism for ya. I checked out Sterling's "Hacker Crackdown" from the local library, though I could also have borrowed it from a friend and read it. Both of these hurt author's sales too... > This isn't meant personally towards Mr. Porter, but > people proclaiming USENET==sewer really annoy me, when this > LIST is sometimes worse. IMHO, most (but not all) times this list is better. Peter ______________________________ From: StevenJ Subject: re: free info, STEP RIGHT UP Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 9:05:38 CST ______________________________ From: the!the Memes-R-Us, perchance? ->became famous, would that put food on my table? Example: Eric ->Raymond's _The New Hacker's Dictionary_. How many people have ->FTPed the text (available in ascii or postscript) instead of ->buying the book? Raymond and MIT Press receive *no* money for Okay, I'll bite. Any ftp sites which you of that carry this file? Steve J. White homoNuevo --------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The goal of science is the destruction aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu of all mystery." - B.F. Skinner aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ Date: 02 Mar 1993 11:40:37 -0500 From: "Who loves, raves." Subject: great idea....environmental mud for the children ...i am thinking about setting up a mud that is directed toward the ...environment and to be used by 3rd to 6th graders. ...what are your thoughts.....? Well, I like children, they taste just like chicken. Seriously it is a great idea. maybe you should mock it up and go for a grant. If you are honestly ABLE to do it, I am sure you could scam a few bucks for the whole thing...to really make it go. randy ikpr500@indyvax.iupui.edu ______________________________ Subject: monitors on sid Date: Sat, 27 Feb 93 1:41:26 From: morpheus I'm getting trailers from my computer.. and it's more distracting than the real thing. (see, my monitor exploded and the only replacement I could scrounge up for free was an "IBM personal computer display", ie the mono piece of shit that came with the PC back in 1981. Thing's uglier than skydiving on LSD, too..) Anyway, it's got permanent trailers. I think I'm going to start selling tickets to see cyberspace so I can raise money to get a new monitor. Maybe a sorta Doc Holiday style "hey check out this listing of NASA computers!" type deal.. We have quite an oppertunity here to take advantage of the public's interest and ignorance about computers in general.. So many people have done this already, but the public still isn't bored of the evil-hacker-teenager-scary-could-take-control- and-steal-our-money-and-we-wouldn't-even-know-eek!-help shit that's been in the media for the last decade.. And we all know that it's morally wrong not to take advantage of fools, right? I was going to go on about how easy it would be to ruin someone's life with the aid of our Fine Silicon Friends, but having this extra set of trailers while I type is really not helping my attention span.. -- morpheus@entropy.linet.org. "Idiots Rule!" _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________|