From - Wed Jan 14 14:55:58 1998 Return-Path: Received: from relay2.UU.NET by mrco.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA18784; Mon, 1 Feb 93 01:40:34 EST Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA06303; Mon, 1 Feb 93 01:38:49 -0500 Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03971; Sun, 31 Jan 93 23:30:34 MST From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy) Message-Id: <9302010630.AA03971@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Subject: FutureCulture Digest #205 To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 23:30:33 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 71742 X-Lines: 1618 ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #205 Sunday, January 31st 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- bah and cyberpunk dat motha tongue GAYS, THE FUTURE, CYBERBIGGOTS, ETC. intro Moorish Orthodox Church of America Morphing fractals new world order. No, I won't be on IRC Re: Bodyart Re: body modification Re: Consensus Manifesto re: forward from FutureCulture Re: fractal tattoo Re: now it's time (fwd) Re: Persian citizens Re: Recommendation for people interested in "cyberpunk" stuff: comp.dcom.telecom Re: Sexuality, homosexuality, Cyberpunk, Labels, the Meaning of Liff Re: Time Magazine now!?!? re: to be hip or not to be hip Re: UT? Sexuality, homosexuality, Cyberpunk, Labels, the Meaning of Liff Souls piercing my scrotum (bodymods) uh UT? _BLACK ICE_ IS NICE! _High Aztech_ __________________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 10:36:56 -0800 (PST) From: Dolgnagerdyia Friltkashnovist Subject: Re: now it's time (fwd) On Sun, 31 Jan 1993, Chaos wrote: > > >I'm personally tired of the publicity. the only thing it's going to do is > > >...not that this stuff doesn't already exist, but we sure the hell > > >dont want more. > > > > well, guess we'll just have to become more sure of ourselves and the company we > > keep (and how we go about KEEPING it), eh? > > No, its even simpler than that. When someone calls you a 'cyberpunk' it > isn't the same as saying you are 'grunge' or you are a 'homie'. I mean > if you're a cyberpunk, you have some knowledge of something. Thats whats > gonna keep away the poser cyberpunks. I mean, saying that you are a > cyberpunk is more like saying you are a doctor than it is saying you are > 'grunge'. > > - Chaos (s442223@nexus.yorku.ca) > "do it smoke inhale die young" > I guess that just depends on what one considers "cyberpnk." About a month or two ago, there was a big (well, maybe not considered to the clothing thread) thread on What Is Cyberpunk. It, was kind of mutually aggreed that cyberpunk was more an "attidude" and that it encompased several subculturisque aspects beyond the "computer-underground." also a part of it, were Raves and the whole techno/goth/industrial acid scene that came wqith that. I would personally consider W.Gibson to be a cyberpunk (wondew why) even if he knew very little about the workings of the net and c-underground beyond the archtypical concepts. The original coinage of the term "poser" as far is I can remember, was from the skater culture. Being a skater, required knowing how, or in the process of learning how, to ride a skate board in mysterious ways. and many a poser did abound. I could envision several posers in the cyberpunk culture....any kid rich enough to have their parents buy them a 14.4k-baud, so they can get on some friends pirate board (whom they know in the flesh) to get all those hot lil wares, and pride themselves in evading the law in their "highly criminal activities" ...shit my DAD does that! (he's 46+ i dont remember anymore) there will also be those techno-maniacs who get everything M2 and Wired has to offer...and when they sit at school, wearing their "brain machines" jacked into some NIN, EVERYONE knows that THEY are cyberpunk. ...but then again, maybe it's inevutable... I used to believe that if i was a person wearing "alternative clothing" then they must be people worth getting to know. Because when one is openly mocked for ones cchoice of clothing, then the faint of heart are nearly always eliminated. This was true until it became trendy to be grunge, and now i cant rely on that "tribal sign" anymore. The reason for being on the net is likewise. If they know how to manipulate a computer sys, then they must have enough intelligence to be worth dealing with...and so far, it has been true...but all good things must come to an end...i guess. liquid the molten wiener dog from hell ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: Re: Persian citizens Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 13:44:30 CST ______________________________ From: the! Feel free ... I know I'm interested. As we all know Islam wil spread even further around the world. From what I understand it's the fastest growwing religion. ->Grendel Grettisson aka Mustafa Bey ->Imam of Greater Wallingford Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: re: to be hip or not to be hip Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 13:46:59 CST ______________________________ From: the! 'sokay ... it really doesn't matter 'cuse eventually whaat is 'cool' to the mainstream won't be anymore. So, if grunge/punk is your thang and has been for quite a while, just wait a little longer. It won't be 'cool' for long ... just like raves. ;-) -> liq -who's sig file ran away Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: re: forward from FutureCulture Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 13:49:45 CST ______________________________ ______________________________ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 05:47:21 -0500 From: Paul thomas Mc intire Subject: intro Greetings fellow monitor-burn outs. My name is Paul McIntire and I'm sending this message from Indianapolis, Indiana...(heard of it?) I've recently subscribed to this list-serve, and am quite happy to find it. I feel one of a rare breed in this town. It's great to correspond with fellow future(present)-minded people such as yourselves. Tonight was an historic event here in Indy; we had our first, honest ta goodness, bigger than life, RAVE! Of course, the promoters here just copied the idea from Chi-town & N.Y.C. raves, except they made them completely legal. That was actually kinda nice. I've been to raves in chicago that were illegal, and didn't really dig the feeling of paranoia. It was kinda funny, because later in the evening, the local tv station came out and filmed it over live tv, and many people started showing up from bars around town. I'd like to make a point for objective consideration by this group This commentary has a political flavor. (If you don't want to deal with that, stop reading now... 8-) Why don't we cut all the inefficiency out of our present political structures by simply referring these issues to a centralized global party. I'm sure many of you may think I'm a bit of an idealist, but I think it's going to have to be ideals in action. For example, if we gave the United Nations (or whatever) complete control over a global economy, healthcare, trade treatise, and education; we could virtually eliminate poverty and famine on this planet. Instead of donating food to a starving country...why don't we teach them how to irrigate and farm? I truly believe that, in order to survive as a race, we need to cooperate as one. Would welcome any and all comments. (except the ones about my mother...) pablo. ------------------------------- pmcintir@etsun.tech.iupui.edu ptmcinti@indyvax.iupui.edu ------------------------------ Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: UT? Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 13:54:19 CST ______________________________ From: the! UT = GMT = Greenwich Mean Time ... it's the time at zero degrees longitude in the UK (that's United Kingdom ;-) Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ Subject: Morphing fractals Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 13:02:29 MST From: Douglas Sinclair I'm not sure how to go about changing human skin pigment. However, we should look at how octopi do it. They can change their color in a matter of seconds, and can have interesting patterns in their skin. Similarly, cuttlefish have these hypnotic bands of color moving over them. So, maybe you could graft in some octopus skin or inject its pigment, and then have the chip run that. -- Vercotti: I was terrified of him. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug. Interviewer: What did he do? Vercotti: He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire. -- Monty Python, Episode 14 PGP 2.1 Key by finger ______________________________ Subject: Re: body modification Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 15:18:08 +0000 From: James Trammell Apparently airbody and dey mama is getting shit pierced, which is cool, but isn't anyone afraid of getting in a fight? You're at a club. You have a ring in your nose, and a ring in your ear, and a chain connecting the two. Better yet, you have both nipples pierced, and a chain connecting them. Oh shit, try this one: You have chains connecting your pierced nipples to your nose, and from your nose to your ears. I won't even bring in genitalia. In comes DarRyL MAniaC, fresh out the juvenile pen, and he wants to slam and mosh and generally fuck up anyone in his way. He sees you, and starts grabbin' for your shit, and you feel MUCH pain, and I'll leave it at that. I guess it depends on where you go and dressing accordingly, i.e. when going to a rough club don't chain yourself up (sorry). But then there's the accidental shit too. Oh well, just my $0.02... Peace, Liquid Talisman ______________________________ From: ahawks (extra crispeE) Subject: Re: Consensus Manifesto Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 13:20:47 MST New fresh-scented *Mitchell Porter* (150% real fruit juices!) says: | |a nitpick for any future FC Consensus manifesto evolving out of Andy's.. |"fringe science" should be "new science".. agreed! -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 11:32:19 -0800 From: Brian Willoughby Subject: Re: Time Magazine now!?!? | In reply to an earlier posting of mine, | liquid@hardy.u.washington.edu said : | | 2. typify and "hollywoodize" our culture that we'll be scornde as | | "trendy schizophrenics" | | Well said. All of it. And I think it is damn wierd... (anyone | want to lay bets on when the first wave of "post-grunge" or maybe | "anti-grunge" bands start getting big press?) | -zamboni According to Nirvana, there are already quite a few "post-grunge" bands. I took my guitar and fretless bass to one of the best guitar shops in the east side of Seattle for adjustment, and the main guy there said that Nirvana (who have him fix up their guitars before every gig) were accusing Pearl Jam of riding on their coat-tails. He didn't agree, maintaining that its all music, and Nirvana weren't that original anyway. Of course, I'm just relaying this - I don't really get into grunge. --- Brian Willoughby Software Design Engineer, BSEE NCSU BrianW@SoundS.WA.com Sound Consulting: Software Design and Development NeXTmail welcome ______________________________ From: ahawks (extra crispeE) Subject: Re: Recommendation for people interested in "cyberpunk" stuff: comp.dcom.telecom Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 13:22:17 MST New fresh-scented *Mitchell Porter* (150% real fruit juices!) says: | |excerpts from some correspondence. | |> Try comp.dcom.telecom sometimes. that group should appeal to about anyone. |> They have posts ranging from how to hack the phone system, to emergency |> disaster plans to where to buy a cellular phone from. I follow it on and |> off. There must be 100 posts a day on it perhaps 10 are well worth reading. |> It's moderated too for that matter so you only get good stuff on it. |... |> Most of this stuff is off comp.dcom.telecom. I believe it is avaialable in |> digest form. Anyone who is even remotely interested in cyberpunk stuff |> should read the telecom stuff. It's extremely educational and most of the |> time fairly entertaining. alt.dcom.telecom used to be the 2600 of the net, too..... I remember reading a lot about cellphones and PBXs there.... -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ Subject: _High Aztech_ From: verge@cyberden.sf.ca.us Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 11:50:10 PST Bill, Yeah, cool, it's one of my fave's too. Are we the only one's on this damned list who read, or what? Yeah, too, about the compromise voudoun and Santeria make with their conquering religions--don't fight, combine! It's also a good way to keep your religion alive when the inquisition's breathing down your back: God = Papa Legba, etc. A good though as to why it's flowing in cyberpunk is that as we all have to work together (world getting smaller? Elephant in a telephone booth!), panthiesm (sp) is starting to become more and more acceptable--no longer any high chief on mountain, just a lot of squabling underlings. Man, as always, getting caught in the cross-fire. Verge !!!!!!!!!!!!! Pere Ubu sez: "Surrealism au service de la revolution!" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________________________________________________________________ | / |\ | H E \ Y B E R |/ E N [ verge@cyberden.sf.ca.us ] ______________________________ Subject: _BLACK ICE_ IS NICE! From: verge@cyberden.sf.ca.us Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 11:52:27 PST Hawkeye and all the little Culturists: A Review: _Black Ice_ P.O. Box 1069 Brighton BN2 4YT 3.95 pounds per 15.00 for 4 Straight from that land of technological innovation, England (?!) comes this cool as freon 'zine, a new contestant in the ring to face off against my own town's "multimedia gulch" _WIRED_, the hip and under-the-cover's _bOING-bOING_, and the flash and dazzle MD200 (down for the count). Hacked by the witty and urbane English, _Black_ is a devotee's _Wired_, a money-backed _bOING_ a MD200 by folks who know what the hell they're talking about. _Black_ is hip, flashy (okay, B&W--but then so is FC!), has got a bite, and an urbane slant that only the blanks of Britan, and the sons of Max Headroom could put on paper. It's hard not to applaud one, and laugh at the other, but WHAT THE HELL--WHY NOT!? _Wired_ has B. Sterling doin' this war thang, has DOD spec. layouts that you need to decrypt and pop hydrocodone to read (that's right, kid's Verge's got a new prescription), the e-dresses of most of its contributors, Camille Paglia putting her foot in her cunt (again), the great and secret Mark Markoff on Phone Fun, and it's nifty little piece on the OTAKU-ZOKU. It's got all the color money can buy, all the names it can rent (or flatter), it's got itself on bus-boards, on our tubes, and in our heads. And what does _Black_ have? Ah, man, _Black_'s got SOUL. _Black_'s straight from the heart of folks who wanna have fun with tech, who are really plugged into what going on (and don't just hire a consultant and ask what "kids are doing these days"). _Black Ice_ has the Church of Godzilla, reviews that hit and rip _Tetsuo_, _Ren & Stimpy_, and the dorky _The Hacker Files_ (L.Shiner, how could you?), good (and not just flashy) VR pages--with a chat with Jon Waldern, a nice hypertext visit/brain-pick of generation X, a coolness flash on Japanese junk food (and these guys are making our cars--), a visit with Stelarc (a really modern primitive who doesn't believe in masochism--right), a nice little visit to the flicks and your local dealer with "Busting the Simulacrum: Movies and Drugs" (best VR in the world is the right flick and the right stuff), a chat with MTV BUZZ-boy Jon Cline, and a nice flash of data (that you can read--fer christ's sake!) in the "System Crash" segment. Sure, _Black_'s got some glitchy bugs and some line noise, but you can read it without mirrorshades and getting a headache. Sure it's small and all of US have heard most of it before--and we all know both 'zines are trying to chat about a subculture younger than optical drives. Sure _Black_ has the extremely annoying habit of not listing product or contact info (give _Wired_ a little pat for that one), but the factoid is that _Black_'s from the heart (mainframe), editor Mark Bennett is in this for the flash and fun, not the corp. bucks and a hefty piece of the market. He's a cool dude, and his is a cool 'zine, worth a stamp to Python land. --and the fact my art might show up in issue 2 has nothing to do with this favorable review-- Mark's new to the net, and might be dropping by. Give him five, check out the 'zine, and HACK NAKED! Verge !!!!!!!!!!!!! Pere Ubu sez: "Surrealism au service de la revolution!" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! __________________________________________________________________________ | / |\ | H E \ Y B E R |/ E N [ verge@cyberden.sf.ca.us ] ______________________________ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 17:26:42 -0500 From: Paul thomas Mc intire Subject: new world order. liquid@u.washington.edu says: could you be more specific about what you are proposing.. personally, i dont think the UN has the capabilities to handle tho situations, were they granted the poewr from on high. There are supposedly (or is supposedly) a group(s?) of (govt's?) working for "new world order" that the late not-so-great Herr Bush kept rantin abstractly. from various roomers i have heard (from my christianb fundamentalist parents-who are scared shitless about it) they are looking for companies to print their new world currency. That's al really heard, but considering the state of the world, it's not unl just an antithought... liq Hmmm.. maybe I shouldn't have used the U.N. as an example. I was simply looking for a "for instance." I think any kind of actual high level centralized governmental system would have to be organized from the ground up vs. refitting an existing system. re Bush's "new world order:" I buy that as much as I bought his "war on drugs," and "no new taxes," and "the education president " idea... However, underground factions have been calling for such an organization for a LONG time. Sooner or later it's GOT to happen. btw...I'm considering setting up a pub. access unix system here in Indianapolis. If anyone has experience with 386BSD v0.1, I would appreciate some advice one it. Please email. Thanx..... 8-) Pablo. ------------------------------- pmcintir@etsun.tech.iupui.edu ptmcinti@indyvax.iupui.edu ------------------------------- ______________________________ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 17:37:19 -0500 From: Elizabeth Schwartz Subject: Re: Bodyart I've heard that the nose is *THE* most dangerous place to get pierced, as infections are common and can spread from the sinuses to the brain. ______________________________ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 15:20:14 -0800 (PST) From: Al Billings Subject: Re: Persian citizens On Sun, 31 Jan 1993, Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee wrote: > >From the cyberdeck of Al Billings... > -> I should post the MOCA intro to the list here. > > Feel free ... I know I'm interested. As we all know Islam wil spread even > further around the world. From what I understand it's the fastest growwing > religion. But we are heretical muslims... ______________________________ From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion) Subject: Re: UT? Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 18:17:44 EST Beyond the ultraworld of Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee: > > UT = GMT = Greenwich Mean Time ... it's the time at zero degrees longitude > in the UK (that's United Kingdom ;-) For the french speaking population across the globe, UT is known as "heure de Paris" (Paris time). This of course comes from the millenary old competition between France and England... It is of course the same time, Grennwich and Paris beeing at the same longitude. Ciao, -- Francois Dion ' _ _ _ CISM (_) (_) _) FM Montreal , Canada Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA (_) / . _) 10000 Watts Telephone no: (514) 343-7511 _______________________________________________________________________________ Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-... ______________________________ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 15:29:11 -0800 (PST) From: Al Billings Subject: Moorish Orthodox Church of America Will someone make sure Pacoid gets this when his mail is working? I'm sure he'll want to see it. HISTORY & CATECHISM of the MOORISH ORTHODOX CHURCH OF AMERICA virtual edition * * * Transcribed from the CRESCENT MOON PRESS 1986 Edition and updated by the editors 1992. no copyright (all material may be freely reproduced) Imprimatur & Nihil Obstat USTAD SELIM (Enforcer of the Law & Bishop-Exilarch of Persia) & ARIF HUSSEIN AL-CAMAYSAR (Imam of Manhattan) * * * A morning breeze trails musk behind it perfumes from the street where my love is Yes, and the world wastes while you sleep The caravan is leaving The sweet smell is dying Get up! Jalaloddin Rumi Moorish Orthodoxy is not a new religion. Historically it began with the message of the American prophet Noble Drew Ali, born Timothy Drew in North Carolina in 1886, raised by Cherokee Indians and adopted into that tribe. At sixteen Drew began his wanderings as a circus magician, which took him to Egypt where he received self knowledge and direction from a priest, the last of a cult of High Magic practiced for centuries in the pyramid of Cheops. This magus recognized the young American as a reincarnation of a former leader of the cult, and saw him for the prophet he was. ______________________________ From: him! The Moorish Science Temple attracted mostly Black Americans. Noble Drew however was no racist, though he held certain racial theories. Blacks, he said, are Moabites or Moors, and under this identity he taught pride to a race of oppressed sufferers. Moors are an "Asiatic Race" --but so are many others. For example, Noble Drew identified Celts as an Asiatic Race; later, when Whites of various sorts became interested in Moorish Science, he identified all such as "Persians", a sort of spiritual rather than factual identity. For Moorish Americans Morocco is a "promised land"; this shows the influence of Garveyite "Return" teachings, and provides an interesting link between Moorish Science and Rastafarianism. Moorish Orthodoxy (despite its name) gives all these teachings an esoteric significance. For us, "The Asiatic Nation of North America" includes all who embrace some form of the Oriental Wisdom, whatever their other affiliations, and "Morocco" signifies their goal, "illuminated" consciousness. In Chicago Noble Drew issued many Moorish Passports, and it is said that some new converts, in the zeal of their newfound nationality, began to grow less and less subservient in their dealings with the oppressor empire ("Pharoah" or "Babylon"). This culminated in a full scale attack on the Science Temple in which (despite the secret escape route, an essential feature of all Moorish Science Temples) many of the faithful were martyred, including the Enforcer of the Law, a man whom Noble Drew had recognized as a reincarnation of Jesus. Shortly thereafter (in 1929) Noble Drew prophesied the hour of his death. He was "taken for questioning" by the Chicago Police and brutally beaten, and died soon after his release. After this, the Moorish Science Temple began to split into sects or factions, one headed by Noble Drew's chauffeur, another by Elijah Muhammed, who his his Moorish Science origins and taught a pseudo-science of race hatred disguised as the "Nation of Islam". Until Elijah's death, many Moors expected him to recant. In the 1950's in the Baltimore/DC area, some white poets and jazz musicians came into contact with the Science Temple and acquired passports. They formed another offshoot of Moorish Science, the Moorish Orthodox Church of America. At that early stage, the M.O.C. was seen as partly Moorish and partly Eastern Orthodox, and there existed certain ties with "Errant Bishops" of the Old Catholic Church, Syrian Orthodoxy, etc. Some of these founding fathers drifted eventually into Sunni Islam, others remained faithful to the M.O.C. and friendly to the Science Temple. In the early 1960's on Manhattan's Upper West Side, one of the youngest of these, Walid al-Taha (Warren Tartaglia), jazz saxophonist and author of -The Hundred Seeds of Beirut-, initiated some friends into the Church shortly before his tragic death (in his early 20's). A new Temple was established in a basement on 103rd street off Broadway, along with a head shop "The Crypt", and a Moorish Science Reading Room. The Church maintained a M.O.C. Motorcycle Club at various neighborhood garages, and a campsite of 123 acres was acquired in northern New York. Close ties were formed with the Ananda Ashram in upstate NY. Members in Baltimore renewed ties with elders and missionaries of the Moorish Science Temple, including the Moorish Governor of Maryland, who ran a junk shop that smelled of rose attar and woodstove smoke, and talked like a Persian poet from Alabama -- an echo, no doubt, of Noble Drew's own perfect Moorish Voice. Ties were formed with the M.S.T. in Brooklyn, which provided copies of The Circle Seven Koran, Catechisms, etc. When the Ananda Ashram moved into Milbrook NY with Timothy Leary's League for Spiritual Discovery commune, the M.O.C. also established a presence there. The M.O.C. is proud of its heritage in the Psychedelic Churches Movement of the 60's, when we shared many adventures in Milbrook till the Empire banished its Celtic guru into exile and prison. We still have a temple in Duchess County, where the church is legally incorporated. At that time the Church more or less abandoned all "Orthodoxy" (though not the name) and found its true spirit in Sufism. What interested us most was Sufism of various unorthodox varieties, including Ismailism (the teachings of the Assassins). But many other strains were woven into the M.O.C. in the 60's, including Advaita Vedanta, Tantra, Neo-American-style psychedelic mysticism, Native American Symbolism, and insurrectionist activism. The 70's and early 80's in retrospect seem a rather dim period in Church history. Members scattered around the world and interest waned. The "New Age" bogged down in various Greed Therapies, guru-scams and bland-outs. For a while only small groups in Manhattan and Dutchess Co. kept a shadowy existence and continuity. Recently however the time has become ripe for a Revival. New religions are appearing: Native American rites, Neo-paganism, Anarcho-taoism, the followers of Eris and others with whom we feel a natural affinity. We have launched a new edition of our newspaper, The Moorish Science Monitor (quiescent since 1967!) and many new conversions have resulted. The sudden upsurge of interest necessitated this revised edition of the M.O.C. pamphlet, out of print since the late 60's. * * * * * What is Moorish Orthodoxy? What is its "Catechism"? Many people have converted to Moorish Orthodoxy simply on hearing its name or seeing the photograph of Noble Drew Ali (frontispiece of the Circle Seven Koran) -- later, however, they may wish to learn something of Moorish doctrine. In effect, there is none. Moorish Orthodoxy is like a mirror in which each seeker beholds a beloved form, each one different. We have no required ritual and no source of authority other than those the individual imagination provides. We do however perhaps share a certain "taste" or spiritual aesthetic. Moorish Orthodoxy was founded originally to explore the esoteric dimensions of Noble Drew's teachings, discovered in such passages from the Circle Seven Koran as these: "Now cease to seek for heaven in the sky; Just open up the windows of your hearts and, like a flood of light, a heaven will come and bring a boundless joy." "By the sweet breath of Allah all life is bound to one; so if you touch a fiber of a living thing you send a thrill from center to the outer bounds of life." "You are, each one, a priest, Just for yourself." "Allah and man are one." "When man has conquered every foe upon the plane of soul and the seed will have full opened out, will have unfolded in the Holy Breath. The garb of the soul will then have served its purpose well, and man will need it never more...and man will then at- tain unto a blessedness of perfectness and at one with Allah." "I (Jesus) brought immortality to light and painted on the walls of time a rain- bow for the sons of men; and what I did all men shall do." The antinomian and egalitarian aspects of lines like these have reinforced our position, in relation to all organized religion, of heresy; in relation to all liberatory teachings and beautiful imaginings we take up a posture of "rootless cosmopolitanism" that seeks out universal spirit hidden anywhere, revealed in all cultures, always occult and dissident, an "Invisible College" embracing East and West but rejecting all official stultifying Consensus Reality. A Moor might belong to any religion or none, "free either to take up a form or not take up a form... not bound to any. Forms are for use, not to make captives" (Hazrat Inayat Khan). The idea of an American heretical Islam is one such form. We appreciate the aesthetic of Moorish Science, of Noble Drew's unique and prophetic mixture of Afro-American, Native American, Magical, Oriental and Moorish symbolism and imagery. We admire his courage, his martyrdom, his revolutionary stance against "Pharoah", his Americanizing of the prophetic spirit (he always wore a Cherokee feather in his fez). We reflect this aesthetic in our lives and creative work. But we are not bound by it. Like certain esoteric Javanese sects we reject the figure of the Master (guru or murshed) in favor of the teacher. Anyone can be a teacher in relation to someone; everyone has something to teach, something to learn. To symbolize this attitude, all Moors are encouraged to create new names and titles for themselves. The Moorish Hierarchy is self appointed; anyone is free to print Passports, although the old Manhattan Lodge possesses certain seals and procedures which converts may appreciate. Popular titles include: Moorish Governor, Metropolitan, Deacon, Vicar, Exilarch, Imam, Castellan, Papessa, Contessa, Marshall or just plain Reverend. Moorish Science Temple adherents often add "Bey" or "El" to their names, others favor other traditions, and some use their own names. All Moors are entitled to titles, however, since all Moors have "authority". The Moorish Orthodox Catechism, then, consists of no rules or dogmas, but only of adherance to the "Five Pillars" of Moorish Science as listed by Noble Drew: LOVE TRUTH PEACE FREEDOM JUSTICE to which we add a sixth, "Beauty". This bud opens into the red rose, the nightingale is drunk for joy--- Hail, seekers! Lovers of wine; wine for a thirsty world like a slug under the rock of repentance... a rock smashed by a mere goblet--- and that is the announcement, the Miracle Wine for the king! Wine for the slave! this banquet was set for everyone, drunk or sober, and when the Feast is over and night grows up, and the inside door of the Tavern springs open Low and High together will bow down under the Arch of the World to meet what...outside? Hafez Shirazi ______________________________ From: ahawks (i'm huge) Subject: Souls piercing my scrotum (bodymods) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 17:34:04 MST New fresh-scented *Benjamin P. Wing* (150% real fruit juices!) says: | |Lurker here, coming out of the shadows ... | |In article <9301302338.AA22838@nyx.cs.du.edu> you write: | |hmm ... ever seen a septum pierce? This is a ring in the part of your |nose between your nostrils, like what they do to bulls. I think it looks |pretty cool, but lots of my friends think it's silly. There's also lots |of genital piercings ... foreskin, scrotum, different places on the penis, |also the guiche piercing is kind of way down in your crotch, behind your |balls. | |A couple of years ago, I discovered rec.arts.bodyart just about when it |began. 'Twas a fascinating group, and inspired me to get a little ol' |ear piercing from the local Piercing Pagoda in cultural-wasteland-central- |New-Jersey-ville, one day in October a year and some ago. For me this was |a big step; but a couple of months later it didn't seem so big anymore, |and I decided to do something real big, and went to Gauntlet in NYC and |got a Prince Albert. (this is a ring in your dick, around 5/8" in diameter, |that goes in through the urethra ["piss-hole"] and out through a hole down |below.) It healed quite fast, only a couple of weeks or so, and I've had |no problems since. (but strange reactions from friends when I told them |about it :-) My earring, on the other hand, never healed, so I took it out |last March. A couple of months ago, I went to Gauntlet SF to get both my |ears pierced (yes, I know I could've gone anywhere, and paid a lot less, |but I wanted to make sure they healed OK, and they have.). Of course I |hardly stand out in SF with my ears pierced ... | |Earrings and nose-rings are mostly for show/decoration; but nipple rings and |genital piercings increase the sensitivity, which I think is a better |reason to get them. | |ben Ok, here we go....confessional time...!!! Last nite, while thinking about this thread, and while on IRC in fact, I pierced my scrotum.....DIY....(or DIM, did it myself, rather) I don't really know why...I have some self-destructive tendencies, that might be it, I like to experiment with my body and don't put it on a pedastal, that might be it....And I'm dramatically changing a lot of aspects of my being, recently, that might be it too (but that change is constant, so...hmm...) At any rate, doesn't really matter *why*, the point is that I did it...and I LOVE it! This may sound really wierd, but doing this was really great, made me real happy.... I felt some sort of release, like I had unconsciously been repressing a desire to do this, so that release is very freeing...... I felt very in sync with a primative vibe...Ok, here's how I did the piercing: I had 2 sewing needles, one about 2 inches long and one about 3-4 inches long...I sterilized everything and had all that alcohol-stuph they give you for ear piercing....I made the original holes with the shorter needle, and then reinforced 'em and made them bigger with the 4 inch needle....At the time, there were some tribal beats on my cd player, and so I was standing tere, looking in my mirrored-closet doors at myself with this 4 inch needle stuck in my balls... It was like the needle represented to me the deconstruction of lots of repressed and synthesized mannerisms of modern society....It was a very mind-enhancing experience, to see the least...Dare I say it rivals some heavy acid revelations to consciously and coherently be in touch with a primal spirit, like the foundation of a gestalt id...... the *foundation* of the gestalt id..... It was post-primordial to me, that's the best word to describe it.... At any rate, it was very freeing...I found myself at a Suburb-O-Rama mall today feeling I had reached yet another important connection that the modern masses turn their eyes away from.... If you've ever spent an entire acid comedown in a mall, you can probably relate, if the trip was meaningful.... So, anyway, it's just cool....It looks cool, it feels cool, doing it was cool...Thinking about it to myself in the company of others is cool... Telling people about it is cool.... It;s one of the more meaningful (top 30, if forced to prioritize) happenings in my life.... Now I'm going to add the rec.arts.bodyart group to my newsrc.... This is ADDICTING! I love the way my ego is getting less anal and allowing more of my id to shine.....I think I'll do my belly-button, and then stop.... PS- this type of experience puts the initiatory rituals of the so-called men's movement to shame.....Robert Bly can kiss my pierced scrotum... -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ Date: 31 Jan 1993 19:44:34 -0500 (EST) From: "Michael J. Current" Subject: GAYS, THE FUTURE, CYBERBIGGOTS, ETC. WARNING - this is kind of long, and pissed off. . . Part 1 (The Civil Part) - Gays in the Future, Call for Discussion *for real* Funny, when I saw at the top of my digest that there was a post labeled "Gays in the Future," I was actually excited. I thought maybe someone else had posted on a subject that has been much on my mind as I have slowly been absorbing this list and the cyperworld in general. When I read it, I discovered, depressingly, that I could not have been more wrong. As a gay person in college, I was naturally drawn to all things "alternative," because people who inhabited those cultural spaces seemed to be people who were rebelling in one way or another against a repressive, conformist society, and thus were far less likely to use rumors, myths, or isolated events taken out of context to judge me or my experiences as a gay person. A big part of the reason I am on the Net and (up to this point, lurking) on this list is that those cultural spaces are much smaller where I live now (Des Moines) than where I went to college (Amherst, MA), and this provides a way for me to feel some sense of reconnection. [I work for the gay/lesbian/bisexual community, and spend a large amount of my time with gay people, but I am not "just" gay. My sexuality is only one part of what I (and this society) need to see liberated.] Cyperculture is steeped in sci-fi roots, and sci-fi, in many instances, has been a fertile ground for exploring issues of sexual repression and liberation, and positing more free and equitable futures for women and gays. Yet I have seen little acknowledgement of or discussion of sexism, and even less of homophobia or gay issues in cyberpunk literature, the alt.cyberpunk groups, or this list. (Despite the fact that several key icons invoked are very gay-identified, e.g. Burroughs). This has lead me to wonder if gay people really do have a place in the cyber- future, or if we are being let out, and for what reasons. It could be argued that the people in cyber-culture are so ruthlessly openminded that alternative sexual orientations are simply accepted, without prejudice or the need for comment. But the "classic" cyberpunk literature I have been trying to get belately familiarly with seems deeply heterosexist. Gay people are not condemned, they simply don't seem to exist in these visions of the future. And the recent posts here by [I've forgotten his name - the gay who spoke out against ending the military ban] made it clear that a least some people in this space are openly bigotted. PLEASE be clear that I am not trying to judge or condemn cyber-culture on the basis of my limited experience and knowledge, which I freely admit to. As I said, I am new here, and I am sure that there is *much* about which I remain ignorant. I have not read every cyber book or article. I've just seen enough of a trend to make me wonder. . . . I am posting this more in the hopes of being educated than of telling people off - except for the obvious bigot mentioned above. I am very drawn to the people and issues I encounter here and elsewhere in cyberspace, I feel at home here, and I feel like my being gay is, for me, a large part of why I have the inclination to interact with this group of people and these issues. So why. . . (you can fill in the blank). Please post or e-mail your comments and suggestions. I'd especially like to e-meet other gay/bi cyberpunkers, just since I have thus far identified so few, but I am looking forward to dialogue with anyone who has ideas on this. Part 2 - Yes, Virginia, there is bigotry and ignorance is cyberspace As for Mr. Obvious Bigot, I won't bother to respond much to him (I'm lying, I can feel it already). Others have already done so very well - which is heartening and helps make this continue to feel like a "safe" space for me. Thanks Andy and friends. I have to ask, though, why you would be even interested in reading about alternative futures, radical culture, mind-altering drugs, alternative music, computer anarchists, etc. if you are so stuck in the most obvious and trite of uncritical thinking modes. Data from a wide variety of social scientists and child advocates indicates clearly that the overwhelming majority of acts of child molestation, be they of children of the same or opposite sex, is committed by persons who define themselves as heterosexual males. Gay men and lesbians are responsible for few such acts compared to their estimated percentage in the population, heterosexuals (overwhelmingly male) are responsible for a vastly disproportunate amount. I have plenty of references should you want them. The very obvious conclusion of your logic is that heterosexual people should be barred from the military and everywhere else in this and future cultures, as they are obviously a great danger to children. This is, of course, stupid, but it is your logic, not mine. Your follow-up post - with your "empirical" justifications - was even more pathetic. So why did you live in Gaytown, anyway. And you say you had gay friends, but don't want them in your reality. And how do you know that any of these supposed child molestations took place. I'll bet it is much more likely that they were vicious myths passed on by people who were uptight and pissed off by the fact that gay people *had* a social/geographic space, and that they had the "misfortune" of living in it. Well, welcome to America as lived for centuries by women, blacks, etc., etc. Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes - some gay people commit child abuse, beat their spouses, rob banks, vote Republican, etc. But that is because they are HUMAN. And therefore, just as likely to be sick and messed up as, say, YOU. What pisses me off most, I guess, is the assumption underlying all this, that the *victims* of child molestation are always poor heterosexuals. BULLSHIT. I do lots of one-on-one counseling with lesbians and gay men who were molested, and it is highly offensive to see *their* experiences ignored and negated. Believe me, it does the same damage to the child regardless of the orientation of the molester *or* the victim. I know you make a mild attempt at pc-ness by *saying* you are not attempting to impose your reality on anyone else, but that too is BULLSHIT. By condemming a whole class of people and `casting a no vote' on their rights, that is exactly what you are doing. For heterosexual victims of child abuse (sexual or otherwise) committed by homosexuals, I have great sympathy. And hopes that they will find help and support and a way to rise above the gross shit that has been inflicted upon them. I have known such victims, and my heart and a helping hand went out to them. I have the same sympathy and hopes for them - no more, no less - that I have for the gay victims I have worked with. For you, though, I have no sympathy. Your bigotry and inability to think critically is a danger to society - gay, straight, and otherwise. Maybe in the future there will be some kind of implant, or ability to recognize the thinking-impared in utero, so that a mercy abortion can be performed. [NO, I do not really support either of these concepts. I am a near rabid civil libertarian. I will fight to an unreasonable length to defend your right to make your stupid-assed statements, because I want to be able to make mine. These are the actually just ideas I have heard - mostly from a German scientist named Dorner - for a future free of homosexuals. . . .] I am sure there is a list somewhere called Bigot Culture. If not, perhaps you can start it. Computers will be of assistance there, to, and I am sure you would feel welcome. Me, I wanna dance - so get the hell out of *my* revolution. [Credits to Emma Goldman, of course]. Michael -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Michael J. Current - Executive Director, Gay and Lesbian Resource Center mcurrent@nyx.cs.du.edu / iamichael@delphi.com 4211 Grand Avenue Des Moines, IA 50312 (515) 279-2110 "There's no revelation forthcoming - *that's* the revelation!" -Avital Ronell -------------------------------------------------------------------------- BTW, what does child molestation have to do with the military, anyway? I frankly can't imagine why *anyone* would want to be in the military, and find it ironic to be so drawn into definding the rights of people to be there, when I really think *no one* should be there, but that is the strange way of politics, I guess. . . ______________________________ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 20:10:29 -0500 From: Liquid Talisman Subject: uh For those who wanted to know, DaRryL ManIaC is a heavily tatooed insane person known throughout the Detroit area. ______________________________ From: s442223@nexus.yorku.ca (Phigs archive maintainers) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 20:21:11 -0500 Subject: bah and cyberpunk Ok, I've been thinking about stuff and I decided I would write a message to recount some of my experiences... Lately I've been hanging around some punks at my school. Some of them are kinda cool, socialists and the bit, which I find cool, but some of them are really big assholes. First of all, there happens to be a certain teacher at my school which I don't like. I called him a 'fag', not that I have anything against homosexuals, its just that its a common expression that we use around here for people we don't like. Anyways, he happened to think the guy was nice, and he called me 'trendy'. Oh no! Hahaha, imagine calling me trendy. What a fukn d00f. Then, I was reading an old mondo that day and they happened to ask what it was, so I told them it was a 'cyberpunk' magazine, cause basically, thats what its trying to be. From then on they haven't let up about me assigning 'labels' to things, which I think is total bullshit. Grr, as I said in my last post its not like being 'grunge' really. You gotta know what you're doing to build a VR system and program it, or to break into the Pentagon or something equally daring. :) Obviously, they are total morons and I'm just writing this message cause they pissed me off. I mean, they used a label like 'trendy' on me. Haha, fukn hypocrites. Maybe we can get some kind of discussion going from this. :) -Chaos (s442223@nexus.yorku.ca) "eee aaa ooo yyy" -- Chaos is s442223@nexus.yorku.ca - only virtual in appearance, naked eyes cannot Chaos is also N'vrekh Ianu tr'Fnavh ... go figger. Call him mud adminstrator for GodNet/Final Frontier. Hey whatever. The look. Get it. da da da. Bored yet? GodNet is at morticia.cnns.unt.edu 7777 --- Based on the Torg GodNet Universe! ______________________________ Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 19:22 CST From: P30TMR8%NIU.bitnet@UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: dat motha tongue Language is a virus from outer space and anyone who can say so is a victim of the invasion of the consciousness snatchers. alinguistic consciousness is the primate heritage we lost in being mutated into cyborgitude by this unearthly brain-spliting microbe. Our bad faith attempts to become en-soi are brain-split attempts to regain the unspeakable paradise of an innoucence lost forever in the fog of self referential discourse. Learning to speak pour-soi is ceaseing to be en-soi. We are all but hosts of a virus which jellyfishnets and has the audacity to call itself a culture worthy of primates. It breaks my heart to hear a baby go goo goo. Someday soon I shall work up the courage to put a nitting needle through me angular gyris. I'll do it in the spirit of Van Helsing cautherising a vampires' betraying Judas kiss. I shall then go hence from this multijellyfishnetitude to commend my funny looking self in honest grunts and gestures to the social tolerance of some reasonablly prosperous baboon troup. uwah uwah, Michael Robets P.S Hi! ______________________________ From: ahawks (shrooooooooooms!) Subject: Sexuality, homosexuality, Cyberpunk, Labels, the Meaning of Liff Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 21:13:38 MST First of all, I'll be on IRC again tonite, most likely in #leri or #circle or #future or #mindvox if anyone wants to hang. Umm, probably be there in an hour, which would be 9pm Eastern Time....Don't know what that is in UT, probably around 3am or so I'd guess..... Michael Current - thanks for that well done post. I tried to respond, found myself starting over many times saying to myself that whatever I wanted to say, you had already pointed out. [rest is to general fc.public] But, anyway, as far as cyberpunk-as-[sub]culture is concerned in relation to homosexuality, I don't think the two have any bearing on each other. Homosexuality has existed seemingly since the dawn of society, and seems to have remained constant, thus it would probably be safe to assume that will continue (at least). Ie, it's a Wrong Idea to believe that homosexuality is *new* to humankind, it's only the constructs of our modern society have allowed for this aspect of being to be more closely examined and/or explored, thus the appearance that it's "growing" (oooo) thus the fear, the prejudice, the hatred, etc. Perfect example of this is American talk shows. As technology creates new mediums, new forums of communication allowing for more information exchange in turn allowing the information to reach closer to home since increased communication generally means an increase in community (whatever that means), we tend to focus on common threads of humankind, ie, sexuality. This is perplexing, though, since in American society sexuality is generally preferred to be kept private, thus when "New Information" or "New Trends" or "New Ideas" regarding sexuality is revealed our seemingly autonomic response is to close our senses to any of these "New info/trends/ideas" that don't conform to our established mode of private sexuality. That aspect combined with the fact that "fear of the unknown" seems innate in humans produces the askew ideas that homosexuality is new, homosexuality will disrupt the fabrics of society, homosexuality is "wrong" for all people everywhere, etc. Umm, that said, let me go out on a limb and say that I think as society evolves (or morphs if you prefer, which is a safer term in this case) homosexuality, bisexuality, and other "alternative" forms of sexuality will increase and be explored more in depth, simply because that seems inherent in systems that bring increased communication because people know that "there's others like me" and people will stop repressing their nature. I'm assuming the mindstyle that more communication = less repression. [unrelated lightbulb sidebar: lots of people associate LSD experiences with your unconscious mind bresaking through, ie less repression. If less repression = more communication, and we aren't repressing with LSD use, who/what are we communicating with/to? or is my statement of ~=ity screwed up and more communication != less repression? or maybe an IFF needs to be added, blahblah....] AARGH, anyway, I'm just saying "get used to the reality of homosexuality because: 1) it is natural (ie, can be born-with), 2) we're increasing our communication which an outgrowth of will be more openness in regards to sexuality. Something I've been wanting to say about this for awhile, that will probably draw large discussions: Some prominent sociologists hold to the theory that the more complex society becomes, the more psychological dysfunctions/problems arise. Agree or disagree? Are American talk shows example A?!?! (ie, every American ytalk show seems to have 3 people with some new psychological or psychosomatic problem, and then 1 "psychologist" who has just "discovered" this problem and written a book about it....) Getting back to homosexuality, I believe it is both born and bred -- both possibilities exist. It could be innate, or it could be a result of your environment as a child/adolescent/[adult? - goes against Erickson, Freud, et al but who knows].... In the cases of it not being inbred - a result of the environment instead - is *that* an exemplification of the idea that complex society = new psychological problems? Is environmentally-induced homosexuality a "problem"? Keep in mind that more and more evidence points to the fact that it is genetic as well, though there's no evidence that *all* who are homosexual have this genetic trait..... Also, is homosexuality an evolutionary mutation? it seems contradictory, but maybe...who knows.....aargh....in my mind i'm getting into entropy and stuff, and I can't sort it all out coherently...crud... Thus would be a good starting point for discussing The Future of Sexuality (not just homosexuality) on FC...... I'm going to quit now because I'm losing my coherency and I need to save *some* for IRC.... --------------------------------------------------------------------------- other matters: New fresh-scented *Phigs archive maintainers* (150% real fruit juices!) says: | |Ok, I've been thinking about stuff and I decided I would write a message |to recount some of my experiences... | |Lately I've been hanging around some punks at my school. Some of them define your definition of punks, please.... |are kinda cool, socialists and the bit, which I find cool, but some of |them are really big assholes. First of all, there happens to be a I don't see the relevance of the underlying connotation punks ~= socialism. [~= = kinda-sorta equal =) ] |certain teacher at my school which I don't like. I called him a 'fag', |not that I have anything against homosexuals, its just that its a common |expression that we use around here for people we don't like. Anyways, he but you still make the connotation in your mind, otherwise you wouldn't have made that statement..... sort of a freudian slip.... |happened to think the guy was nice, and he called me 'trendy'. Oh no! |Hahaha, imagine calling me trendy. What a fukn d00f. define your definition of trendy, please.... [ps, these define things aren't flames -- i do this to everybody, bopth on and off the net....bu I'm less anal-sounding about it off the net] |Then, I was reading an old mondo that day and they happened to ask what |it was, so I told them it was a 'cyberpunk' magazine, cause basically, |thats what its trying to be. From then on they haven't let up about |me assigning 'labels' to things, which I think is total bullshit. umm, first off, since we're immersed in labels already, which is one of the foundations of existence as a community, i think the consensus at Mondo might lean more towards calling themselves "new edge" rather than "cyberpunk".....this is a popular askew-meme [!..=)] that propagates... [this = Mondo is cyberpunk] |Grr, as I said in my last post its not like being 'grunge' really. You |gotta know what you're doing to build a VR system and program it, or |to break into the Pentagon or something equally daring. :) Obviously, |they are total morons and I'm just writing this message cause they |pissed me off. I mean, they used a label like 'trendy' on me. Haha, fukn |hypocrites. but *your* interpretation of the label trendy and *their* interpretation of the label trendy and *my* interpreatation as well as everybody else's could be very mis-aligned.... not only interpretation, but, more appropriately, subjective implications (ie unconscious "good v bad" decision-making) Your encounter exemplifies my expressed need (desire) to DEFINE things, and to REALIZE that it's not enough to define, but we must also CONSTANTLY engage in REDIFINING.....(ie, reality-vocab-checks) It seems this pheomenon of "too many labels, too many perceptions" that go unchecked is an outgrowth of people's inability to cope with a world that has an increasing population and exponentially increasing communications.... Something I feel we *have* to deal with in the future....The first step is making conscious and unconscious decisions to do this on a personal level....Then, it'll spread (like butter) and soon everyone will be more open about reality-checking labels with each other... by reality-checking I mean conversations like (hypopthetical example[?]): You're a trendy. What do you mean by trendy? You know what I mean. I know what trendy means to *me*, but I don't know what trendy means to you, so tell me what you mean by trendy. By trendy I mean you follow styles just to be hip. What do you mean by hip? What's hip? Well, you're wearing a flannel. flannel is hip because it's grunge. What do you mean by grunge? Flannel and Seattle Bands. All bands from Seattle are grunge? Only bands from Seattle are grunge? Well, no, but any garage band that has loud guitars and indecipherable vocals and has a raw aggressive sound could possible considered grunge, in my mind. Anyway, grunge is hip, grunge is trendy. Hip = trendy? Usually, yeah, at least to the mainstream. What do you mean by mainstream? People who are not as on the edge of the underground as I am. So therefor, trendy is mainstream, not underground, at least relative to where you consider yourself to be. Grunge is an eexemplification of trendy, then, at least to you, because it's hip to the trendy people. Therefor grunge is not underground. You say I am a trendy, I am mainstream, I am not udnerground because I am wearing flannel, and a flannel, according to you, is hip, trendy, not underground. Well, yeah....dude, you're wierd....fuck you.... [starts to walk away] So should I desire to be more "underground" then? Accoridng to you? Well, yeah, if you don't want to be a trendy. Ok, then, I want to be underground. what's underground? Dress like me dude! Dress like a hardcore raver, like I am. Ok, then, I will. Are you hip? Yeah.... [laughs] My friends will dress like you to. We will all be hip. Cool.... Then we will all be trendy together. Wha????? Huh? Because we will be mainstream, then, so we'll be trendy. [repeat if necessary, infinite cycle] [end Schizocratic Dialogues, Chapter 1 - The Mem-opher King] seriously, I did a lot there....It shows the conformity inherant in society [which should be obvious anyway], but hopefully it still shows the importance of reality-checking your labels, which of course requires suitable reference points [ref back to FC manifesto]... Actually it didn't show the importance of reality checking, but, umm, I think that was evident way way above..... The Beastie Boyz encourage everyone to "Check yer Head" I encourage everyone to "Check yer Memes" keep track of them...Watch them shiver, see them quiver, see them morph, see them sea monkeys grow!!!! try and maintain some common ground... |Maybe we can get some kind of discussion going from this. :) hahahahahahahha oh, wow, so out of sync I'm *in* sync on this one..... |-Chaos (s442223@nexus.yorku.ca) | "eee aaa ooo yyy" |-- |Chaos is s442223@nexus.yorku.ca - only virtual in appearance, naked eyes canno |Chaos is also N'vrekh Ianu tr'Fnavh ... go figger. Call him mud adminstrator |for GodNet/Final Frontier. Hey whatever. The look. Get it. da da da. Bored yet |GodNet is at morticia.cnns.unt.edu 7777 --- Based on the Torg GodNet Universe! -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ From: ahawks (shrooooooooooms!) Subject: No, I won't be on IRC Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 21:18:40 MST I won't be on IRC tonite, at least for awhile..... EXTERMIN8! EXTERMIN8!! EXTERMIN8!!! Davros is online....=) -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ From: s442223@nexus.yorku.ca (The Chaotic One) Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1993 23:43:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Sexuality, homosexuality, Cyberpunk, Labels, the Meaning of Liff In your message of 23:13 Jan 31 1993, you write: > |Lately I've been hanging around some punks at my school. Some of them > > define your definition of punks, please.... Eeeeee. Stop reading my message so literally. It should be 'people who call themselves punks', but. > > |are kinda cool, socialists and the bit, which I find cool, but some of > |them are really big assholes. First of all, there happens to be a > > I don't see the relevance of the underlying connotation punks ~= > socialism. I happen to like socialism, thats all. > |certain teacher at my school which I don't like. I called him a 'fag', > |not that I have anything against homosexuals, its just that its a common > |expression that we use around here for people we don't like. Anyways, he > > but you still make the connotation in your mind, otherwise you > wouldn't have made that statement..... > > sort of a freudian slip.... Bah, words evolve. I admit that using that word isn't totally nice to say to a homosexual, and I've been trying ot break the habit of calling anyone I don't like a 'fag', but habits die hard, no? > > |happened to think the guy was nice, and he called me 'trendy'. Oh no! > |Hahaha, imagine calling me trendy. What a fukn d00f. > > define your definition of trendy, please.... He called my trendy. I dunno what he meant. There seems to be a general paranoia around the people who call themselves 'punks' at my school of 'trendy' people and being 'trendy' themselves. > > [ps, these define things aren't flames -- i do this to everybody, > bopth on and off the net....bu I'm less anal-sounding about it off the > net] Sure you are. :) [ *SERIOUSLY* weird conversation deleted. ] Oh gee, that was fun. Not like any of my posts have a reason for them. I seriously believe that you're all just a bunch of computers out there with artificial intelligence. Am I paranoid? Nah. > -- > > ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation > ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu > -- Chaos is s442223@nexus.yorku.ca - only virtual in appearance, naked eyes cannot I AM THE LIZARD KING I CAN DO ANYTHING. Cyberaddict, cyberlover, etc. Woo-woo! ______________________________ From: ahawks (shrooooooooooms!) Subject: Re: Time Magazine now!?!? Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 21:49:32 MST New fresh-scented *Dolgnagerdyia Friltkashnovist* (150% real fruit juices!) says: | |I'm personally tired of the publicity. the only thing it's going to do is |1. get a bunch of posers on the net, claiming to be cybrepunks, flooding |the news threads with bogus rantings. 2. typify and "hollywoodize" our |culture that we'll be scornde as "trendy schizophrenics" and 3. get people |like the govt. and other mainstream agencies to take another look at us |and find better reasons to harrass us. (us-not saying that WE are even |CYBERPUNK) not that this stuff doesn't already exist, but we sure the hell |dont want more. It was always more fun to be "alternative" when it was |"uncool" ...when people would call you "faggot" "batcaver" etc. but now, |in seattle, for instance, everyone is grunge, (even my lil sis, who |listens to Janet Jackson) and the entire point for being "grunge" or |"punk" or "politicaly correct" or "hippie" is dead. it's even becoming |trendy to be bisexual and S&M. and that's whatl happen to us. even if we |dont "esteem" ouirselves as cyberpunk, everyonoe else will. I think you're ready to morph your bubble. You seem like the tpye who would want to keep close to the "underground", or at least "on the edge", or whatever you want to call it.... In my experience, the underground or edge is constantly morphing (changing, evolving), so, don't stop -- keep going, morph the bubble, make a new bubble, don't *POP!* an existing bubble because you now deem it POPular.....[that's not a flame, bw, in case anyone would interpret it that way] I remember when I first "discovered" (hahaah) alt.cyberpunk, one of the very first posts I saw said "cyberpunk is dead".... and within the the evolution of te conversation people have begun saying cyberculture (misnomre) is dead.... IMHO, I'll say again, "it doesn't die, it just morphs". I think that when people do not keep up their interest level or, better yet, when peole find *comfort* in a bubble is when they begin to say "the buble is popping". It takes a lot more than a consensus feeling of death to pop a bubble... I think it takes some notable clear intervention on behalf of Big Bubble Makers, like the government, as you mentioned above in #3, to pop a bubble. Even still, the bubble residue catches on to another bubble. For example, when LSD "got popular" and the hippies climaxed, the resultant government intervention and general fear and paranoia regarding psychedelic culture apparently popped the psychedelic bubble, right? Well, look how the bubble has been reborn, and continues on a very large scale today (ie, psychedelic cultur is prominent again). *And* and, he said again, and, the reside from the first psychedelic bubble landed on the futureculture/technoculture bubble (and cyberpunk culture bubble as well [notice I said cyberpunk culture and not cyberculture - but I guess I could use cyberculture there too, supplying an example like Leri....] - I'm big on these distinctions now, so, hehe, be prepared for more anal labeling and relative defining from my end of things =) )...... Timothy Leary is bubble residue.... [there's a quotable].... Witness his involvement in Mondo, raves, vr, etc.... He's more than residue, in fact - he's his own bubble, and his chaos rainbows travel at hyperspeed..... [Ps, if anyone's lost, the bubble crap refers to my pseudo-manifesto (pseudo until/unless it becomes fc.communal, that is) -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ Subject: Re: fractal tattoo Date: Sun, 31 Jan 93 22:02:59 -0700 From: mikey@.nyx.cs.du.edu >I say we figure out a way to implant a small CPU to control the tatoo and >make it change randomly, or zoom in/out as a fractal gen'ing app would do. instead of a fractal image, how 'bout something like a holographic tattoo. any thoughts on how this might be accomplished. perhaps making it so you could change the plates. small laser diode implanted in the shoulder joint, small holographic plates in a holder on the surface, and perhaps even the ability to make your own holographic plates to design your own tattoos. whatcha think? as for a tattoo design, anyone ever consider a molecule. dna strands are a fairly common idea, but how about caffeine or nicotine or even an hiv? side note: >ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu >Crap, this wouldn't be Mike E. of Poor Boy Prods., would it? No. later, mike _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________|