From - Wed Jan 14 11:45:59 1998 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by mrco.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA11328; Tue, 26 Jan 93 01:40:58 EST Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA22492; Tue, 26 Jan 93 01:32:55 -0500 Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01262; Mon, 25 Jan 93 23:30:24 MST From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy) Message-Id: <9301260630.AA01262@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Subject: FutureCulture Digest #194 To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 23:30:20 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Content-Length: 95942 X-Lines: 2252 ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #194 Monday, January 25th 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- #Future on IRC... again Artificial Organisms bounces Brunner Clothes Clothes and the person clothes.. Clothes/Subculture/Sucess-Failure clothes? Clothing clothing Clothing again (can't remember the RE:) clothing shit clothing, a la philip k dick hey buddy what ya wearing.. hey buddy what ya wearing.. [D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D mailer fuckups, aside, here's my .02 Newsweek is Wired no subject (file transmission) r3: sub(ul+ure % cl0th1ng RE : clothing Re: subculture and clothing Re: (subject of the day) Re: Artificial Organisms Re: Clothing Re: clothing Re: Clothing again re: cyber-clothing(?) Re: cyberspace ?! re: drug use on AUtopia re: drug use on AUtopia re: drug use on AUtopia (fwd) Re: Newsweek is Wired Re: subculture and clothing re: the seduction by/of tech. Re: yanking up the WIRING Re: yanking up the WIRING re:Culture and clothing Subculture & Clotheries... Subculture and Clotheries addendum... subculture and clothing The Doc'ers Club (as seen on TV) What I'm wearing... __________________________________________________________________________ Date: 25 Jan 93 13:31:14 EST From: Huy.Nghiem@Dartmouth.EDU Subject: Subculture & Clotheries... Black 501's, steel-toe combat boots scuffed to hell from kicking 3000+ ft. of the granite and using them as a hammer, Absolut Genius white t-shirt (exclusively Dartmouth), nickel ankh from Retail Slut on Melrose [NE1 in the UCLA net scope?], and a double-breasted London Fog black trenchcoat. When dressed up, replace with Pierre Cardin burgundy shirt, violet tie, black sports jacket, Christian Dior violet scarf, same 501's, same combat boots, same trenchcoat. ;) I agree with Jennifer.M.Collins@Dartmouth.EDU: the sludge on the streets after the snow [Mod. Eng. allusion] is messing up my boots even more. Leather's wearing away to tattered steel. Subcultures have their own style, true. To dress a certain way implies certain things about you and your subculture -- your interests, ideology, aesthetics. But why always play the game? You start defining yourself with the walls of your clothes and appearance. Do something different. That's why I do silk ties with scuffed leather combat boots -- a post-modern aesthetic, scrunged up from the carcasses of the fallen cultures. Next move? New kinds of jewelry. Anyone consider skin studs? Rejection is my greatest concern. Also, is it possible to latch them to the bones and at the same time, not cause undue irration and tissue growth? Percival@Dartmouth.EDU "Carpe caro -- seize the meat!" ______________________________ Date: 25 Jan 93 13:35:17 EST From: Huy.Nghiem@Dartmouth.EDU Subject: Subculture and Clotheries addendum... ...eyeware. Forgot that. Over Bausch & Laumb (sp?) contacts, round wire-frame pitch black shades bought off Venice Beach. Percival@Dartmouth.EDU "Carpe caro -- seize the meat!" ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 11:14:17 -0800 From: Brian Willoughby Subject: Re: yanking up the WIRING | Anne Balsame (by way of ahawks): | ... | | >The point is, in brief: We will not be well-served by a | >golly-gee-whiz (uncritical) reverence/fascination for new technology. | >We've got to learn how to have a healthy skepticism about things | >we're seduced by. | | okey dokey. i'm online, attempting to embed the SELF-CONSCIOUSNESS | of "What's Going On" within the matrix which is doing the | changing. here above it's laid on the line. so what, to you (yes, | YOU) is Going On? | | i have a fairly good reason to take stake in this as well. i've | CHOSEN to be in here. haven't i? | | what are we being seduced by? what point are we dancing around? | what about you? .rez I don't know if you expected responses from the list, since you addressed your comments to Ms. Balsame, but I'll answer for myself anyway. For me, the 'what' is Communication advancements. Personally, that primarily means improving the communication of technical ideas so that the workplace (which I am not currently a working member of) can expand to include the homes of engineers. Multimedia communications and virtual reality hold the promise (from my point of view) of obsoleting the requirements for meetings in a physical conference room. I'd much rather work at home. Secondarily, communication for fun could be improved by these technologies. As a NeXT computer owner, I'm beginning to rely upon its features for multiple images, audio, color text and files when communicating with others via electronic mail. I mean, you can have a fax, or even a photo of a sheet of paper, in your mail. The computer is becoming less constrictive of the natural modes of human communication, breaking down cultural and international borders and even physiological barriers (hey, if they can't see how young/old you are, or what race/sex you are, they're less likely to discriminate, I suppose). In light of these viewpoints, I think that it is ironic that WIRED is even trying to talk about the New Edge, considering that paper is bound [sic] to gradually assume smaller and smaller importance in communication in the electronic age. I'll probably still purchase a copy as soon as I can get my hands on one, simply because of Bruce Sterling's appearance. For me, the fancy graphics in Mondo 2000 and WIRED just serve to sharpen my appetite for the graphics capabilities that I want in my personal communications with others. I would love to see the FutureCulture mailing list break into new technological areas by adding images and sounds to its palette of communications. --- Brian Willoughby Software Design Engineer, BSEE NCSU BrianW@SoundS.WA.com Sound Consulting: Software Design and Development NeXTmail welcome ______________________________ From: dionf@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Francois Dion) Subject: Re: subculture and clothing Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 11:47:31 EST Black corduroy jacket, black t-shirt, indigo jeans. One gold earing on left ear and a "cuir veritable/genuine leather" black and gold badge hanging from my neck. No watch, no other jewelry (now, where the hell is my watch???). Ciao, -- Francois Dion ' _ _ _ CISM (_) (_) _) FM Montreal , Canada Email: CISM@ERE.UMontreal.CA (_) / . _) 10000 Watts Telephone no: (514) 343-7511 _______________________________________________________________________________ Audio-C-DJ-Fractals-Future-Label-Multimedia-Music-Radio-Rave-Video-VR-Volvo-... ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 13:55:31 -0600 From: Cylinder CYLINDER The International Society for the Philosophy of Tools & Space We are an interdisciplinary organization, small but growing, dedicated to thoughtful discussion about and research into issues concerning tools and space. Currently, we maintain a membership list and circulate a short newsletter. Our future plans call for expansion - a regular journal and a number of conferences are possible in the coming year. Our membership list includes philosophers, artists, computer programmers, scientists, graphic designers, architects, teachers - as well as those whose professions are still unnamed. We are not a school or a sect or party because we are not in agreement over particular doctrines. Our society is bound by an implicit faith in the silent potency of tools, space, meaning and metaphor, in a wide range of seemingly unrelated fields. Within the scope of our talks to date, members have raised diverse and fascinating issues for consideration: - A phenomenology of humor, tools and toys - Space and the banality of cause and effect - Rhetoric and metaphor: language as tool/toy - The iconology of computers - Speed and annihilation - Victimless crimes and crimes of trespass - The mechanics of the dreamwork in psycho-analysis - Architectural theory and practice - Political theories of reterritorialization - Viruses: information systems and genetic engineering - Media theory - Virtual Reality: the emergence of simulacra in social space - Transit technology and urban planning - Infrastructure catastrophes The thematic study of tools and space forces us to reconsider and sharpen the boundaries separating the various specialties of our members. Many of us are involved in concrete and ongoing projects which undo customary lines of inquiry and uncover fruitful new questions in what was formerly considered "obvious" and explained. We seek to move beyond conventional genres without abandoning meaning and beauty for the sake of novelty. For more information about Cylinder, including membership materials, please write us with your name and address. CYLINDER c/o Graham Harman, Secretary Philosophy Dept., DePaul University Chicago, IL 60614 USA email: cylinder@uiowa.edu NeXT mail: cylinder@arcade.uiowa.edu (If you have already written to Cylinder, please refrain from doing so a second time. Your name and address have been added to our mailing list and you should be expecting membership materials in the coming months.) ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:17:43 +0600 (CST) From: Patrick McKee Subject: Re: yanking up the WIRING On Mon, 25 Jan 1993, Brian Willoughby wrote: > I would love to see the FutureCulture mailing list break into new > technological areas by adding images and sounds to its palette of > communications. > --- I use PINE 3.05 mailer on our unix system. It does allow the attachment of binary files. Several of us here at the University are already using this feature. Oh yea, it also allows you to view/listen to the binary if you are set-up for it. You merely have to have the right software for PINE to use. C-ya in the flux...... ______________________________ From: "Spam@tin.supermarket.tescos" Subject: Re: subculture and clothing Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:53:06 +0000 (GMT) Spam, spam, egg and cardell@lysator.liu.se : => =>Just recently I found an old paper I wrote about subcultures. In it I =>stressed the importance of clothing in various cultures. Now I wonder, =>out of sheer curiosity, what the readers of FC wear at this moment. =>Sure, one can discuss if Random J. Futuroid is a member of a certain =>subculture, for example the cyberpunk culture (haven't deciced if I =>like that word yet), but for this little experiment let's say that he =>is. Well, what are you wearing while reading this? :) Black steel toe-capped DMs, black combat trousers, black Cranes long sleeved T-shirt - moderate jewellery (earing, bangles etc) and at the mo a long very dark blue Naval overcoat, but if the weather was warmer I'd be wearing a leather jacket which is painted with Celtic knotwork. Ooops - makes me sound like a cliche......... ;-> Spam. ______________________________ Date: 25 Jan 1993 13:01:11 -0800 (PST) From: Vlad the Impaler Subject: Clothing again (can't remember the RE:) > Who cares what I'm wearing? Does it really prove anything about the > person? A lot of people dress just to conform to the image of a > punk or houser or whatever. True, there are people who dress to conform. Yet at the same time, discarding the entire notion of surveying (this is a sociological type o' survey I think) is rather a dangerous notion. Just because there are some who conform to certain standards for the sake of conforming doesn't ruin the merit or worth of the survey itself, for most of what is gained from it is still valid. Of course the problem exists in picking what is valid and what is invalid, and in the end, like you said, who really cares anyway? Idle curiosity is after all idle curiosity. A question was posed and people answered. Maybe it isn't all that relevant, but then again, I find it quite interesting. Notice the fact that almost all the replys to the question seem to stem from for lack of a better word "alternative" type dress. At the same time I'll bet that this doesn't represent a very good cross-section of the FC subscribers. The person who dresses in an average manner usually does so (I'm probably wrong here) because the issue of clothing isn't a particulary big or important one, and thus they won't reply to the wuestion because they don't care. On the other hand, people who dress "differently", "weird", or even "weird in the face of weirdness" do so I think (again probably wrong) because clothing/image/general aura stuff is something important to them, and thus they are more likely to reply because they too are interested in the question itself. What am I saying/ getting to? Looking back I'm not altogether sure myself. I guess I'm just trying to say that the entire thing is pretty damn subjective, and well, just add some observations, most likely which are incorrect. > Don't be a conforming non-conformist! Be totally weird! Be weird in the > face of weirdness! At the same time the question could be posed that who cares what I'm wearing even if I'm "weird in the face of weirdness"? Either way, conform, weird, or weird in the face of weirdness, they're still clothes. What does it matter? Not flaming, just wondering... Bret Ambrose -bambrose@pomona.claremont.edu > -Chaos (s442223@nexus.yorku.ca) > "to have one physical kiss i would be content" ______________________________ From: bsherman@acsu.buffalo.edu (Brian C. Sherman) Subject: clothing shit Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 16:07:14 EST The clothes make the man... but the woman makes the clothes... What does that make the woman? -Meryn Cadell Black boots, orange laces. Black jeans. Grey turtleneck. Air Force surplus long wool coat. Briefcase. Wire-rim glasses. Short hair and beard. Ok, so lots of us wear boots - and the real fashion victims have Docs. -Brian ______________________________ From: Visceral Clamping Mechanism Subject: Re: subculture and clothing Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 13:12:28 PST This is actually kind of a cool cultural thread (pun, sorry) IMO. I'm wearing a white Chico State Computer Science tee shirt, a white Grass Valley Group sweater, faded blue 501s with a hole in one knee, and some white SAS fitness shoes that are falling apart from wear due to skateboarding. When it's cold I wear either a trenchcoat from a thirft shop or a big puffy dark gray overcoat. I've got long blond hair tied back in a ponytail. I look about the same when I'm not working, except my clothes are a bit more worn out. >Anyways, I was thinking along the lines of having a special mud set up >for creating artificial life. We could use a mud server with a programming >language so we could program special behaviours and mating stuff etc. A friend and I wrote a realtime graphical generic AL engine for MSDOS that allows you to write artificial organisms in straight Borland C. It could be adapted to a MUD if you can figure out a portable way to dynamically load and execute unlinked object code. We couldn't. - atman@rahul.net || "Burn hollywood burn!" Sync ye to the beat, and become it; once you understand it, you can destroy it. ______________________________ Subject: clothing Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:16:50 MST From: Douglas Sinclair Hm. Right now I'm wearing blue Levi jeans and a black and grey sweater. Outside I always wear mirrorshades, even when it's dark, and steel-toed construction boots. When I have some money I'm going to get myself some Tilley stuff. -- Vercotti: I was terrified of him. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug. Interviewer: What did he do? Vercotti: He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and satire. -- Monty Python, Episode 14 PGP 2.1 Key by finger ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 12:18:25 -0800 From: Brian Willoughby Subject: Re: clothing Finally, a couple of FutureCulture readers have responded who I can identify with. When I first read the 'subculture and clothing' question, I remembered some observations that I've made over the past ten years about "people who don't want to belong". In college and beyond, I've met an alarming number of people who seem preoccupied with defining themselves through their wardrobe. These are people who seem to despise mainstream culture and trendiness in general. I've never confronted anyone with my observations ('til now, since I have no control over who'll read this), but it seems that they're still afraid to make a complete break from trends. I mean, all I ever seem to see are the lennon glasses, fashion-free trench coats, artificially worn/torn jeans, lots of leather, the occasional primary color hair dye, perhaps cammies, studded jewelry, stupid hats, but most of all: The Distinguishing Black Boot - styled after basic military issue, yet somehow lacking the simple aesthetic of its archetype - usually with a sole that is too big and sticks out on all sides under the boot in an awkward "anti-style" which just doesn't /flow/ for me. After the list of acceptable garb comes a longer list of the unacceptable; characterized by their conspicuous absence, yet still defying enumeration, although members of this counter-group can be quite vocal when shunning particularly mainstream brands. When counter-culture styles start looking as silly as the styles of culture proper, who can say which is better? They're merely different "styles", and a person is still *conforming* whether mimicking the majority group or a smaller counter-group. If you still care what I'm wearing, I chose a plain white baseball style sweat-shirt and ultra-light-blue levi's today. I avoid clothing which brandishes its own brand name, preferring the simple and unobtrusive. No lennon glasses or lennon shades, and certainly no SBT boots, just cheap black BOKS (I don't think Reebok shoes are anything great, but I also refuse to avoid them in some pointless reaction to their trendiness). SBT is a term an acquaintance of mine invented for "Scary Black Things" or, in my words, people-who-belong-to-the-group-which-wears-all-black-with-army-boots-and-u sually-have-very-pale-complexions. I agree with Chaos: don't be afraid to be original and truly different. --- Brian Willoughby Software Design Engineer, BSEE NCSU BrianW@SoundS.WA.com Sound Consulting: Software Design and Development NeXTmail welcome | Who cares what I'm wearing? Does it really prove anything about | the person? A lot of people dress just to conform to the image of | a punk or houser or whatever. | | Don't be a conforming non-conformist! Be totally weird! Be weird | in the face of weirdness! | | -Chaos (s442223@nexus.yorku.ca) ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 11:31:28 PST From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin) Subject: Re: subculture and clothing black monkey boots, black jeanz, white t-shirt with deutschland on it, oversized olive corduroy shirt/jacket-type thing over that, shaved hair on sidez, longer on top, four earrings, diving watch, bicycle chain bracelet and ball.bearing bracelets. psychedelick tripper, amateur lucid dreamer, raver, cyberpunk, -mark. ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 16:28:54 -0500 From: ah185@yfn.ysu.edu (Christopher L. Tumber) Subject: What I'm wearing... Fuck all! When I go out: Black runners, Jeans (Blue or Black), A T-Shirt with something sarcastic, Full length blue coat, Couple earings, Wireframes when I don't bother with the contacts. So, who's gonna be first to post a GIF? ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 14:37:42 -0700 From: "-=/[ drow ]/=-" Subject: r3: sub(ul+ure % cl0th1ng (ard3ll@lysa+or.l1u.s3 r1t3z: -=/[ Just recently I found an old paper I wrote about subcultures. In it I -=/[ stressed the importance of clothing in various cultures. Now I wonder, -=/[ out of sheer curiosity, what the readers of FC wear at this moment. -=/[ underwear, bathrobe. of course, in public i'd never wear the bathrobe. : drow : ______________________________ From: jesse@picasso.ocis.temple.edu (Jesse Davis) Subject: re:Culture and clothing Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 16:40:12 EST clothes. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Jesse Davis | | |jesse@picasso.ocis. | "Metaphor is my mathematics" | | temple.edu | --Free Agent .rez | | 215-545-3724 | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ______________________________ From: mondays@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Honey's Dead) Subject: hey buddy what ya wearing.. Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:10:28 EST pretty funny. seems like everyone seems to be wearing just about the same kinda clothes. lets look in the lab, the guy next to me is wearing... -abstarct art t-shirt -grey coat -introspect jeans -white nikes with black swoosh -wire rim glasses -moustache -and cheap cologne me? black 8 hole Docs, levi 501 jeans, blue button up shirt with a yellow "it came from outer space shirt", couple of earrings, and long hair tied back. hmm, wonder what my neighbors mom is wearing? -- ============================================================================== ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ frederick myers mondays@bsu-cs.bsu.edu 00fwmyers@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu exel@netcom.com plus a few others... 317.286.1511 Muncie IN ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ hemp 4 victory! -- fun WWII propaganda ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ============================================================================== ****************************************************************************** ______________________________ From: Nowhere Man Subject: Re: Clothing again Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:17:20 -0500 (EST) BAMBROSE@POMONA.CLAREMONT.EDU (Vlad the Impaler) Said: > True, there are people who dress to conform. [...] > On the other hand, people who dress "differently", "weird", or even > "weird in the face of weirdness" do so I think (again probably wrong) because > clothing/image/general aura stuff is something important to them, > and thus they are more likely to reply because they too are interested in the > question itself. [...] > > Don't be a conforming non-conformist! Be totally weird! Be weird in the > > face of weirdness! > At the same time the question could be posed that who cares what I'm wearing > even if I'm "weird in the face of weirdness"? Either way, conform, weird, or > weird in the face of weirdness, they're still clothes. What does it matter? > Not flaming, just wondering... It matters. How you dress makes quite a difference in how people react to you-- whether they admit it or not. Whatever clothes you wear, people will place you in a certain category when they see them. In fact, the clothes you wear can even have an impact on how you see yourself. This is something that I haven't really worked out for myself to my satisfaction. I don't _want_ to be categorized! I am not a number! I have played with the idea of wearing totally disparate outfits every day. Going from a suit to a cut-off "Die Yuppy Scum!" t-shirt to hip-hop style clothes, etc.. People would still judge me by my clothes on first meeting me, but on the second (third...) day wouldn't know what to think! :-) -- ( Nowhere Man ) Please do not use this document ( rpowers@panix.com ) as toilet tissue. ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:20:27 -0800 From: pustule@cats.UCSC.EDU (Thaddeus H. Wood) Subject: Re: Clothing Our pal Chaos, s442223@nexus.yorku.ca, said this on Mon Jan 25 10:02:44 1993: -> Who cares what I'm wearing? Does it really prove anything about the -> person? A lot of people dress just to conform to the image of a -> punk or houser or whatever. -> -> Don't be a conforming non-conformist! Be totally weird! Be weird in the -> face of weirdness! -> -> -Chaos (s442223@nexus.yorku.ca) -> "to have one physical kiss i would be content" Well, my good future-culture friend, that was never the point. The original poster, cardell, was asking what we were wearing out of sheer curiousity. It just so happens that a trend emerged. You needn't feel obligated to tell us what you are wearing, but surely, we're all the more curious now. So, what are you wearing? I, fyi, am wearing black Monkey boots, black 550 Levi's, an Einsturzende Neubauten t-shirt, and a black Nylon bomber jacket. You know, with the orange interior. Hair style is short on the sides and longer on top. The sides are the natural dark blonde color, whilst the top is bleached white. Two silver hoop earings in each ear, and a big silver and onyx ring on my right index finger, with a black and silver Disney Goofy watch on my left wrist. It's cool, really. The hands move counter-clockwise, and the numbers are on counter-clockwise, also. Makes time-telling fun! So, howzabout the rest of youse. -- Thaddeus H. Wood 716 Lighthouse Ave. Santa Cruz, CA 95060 pustule@cats.ucsc.edu -- +1 408.423.8733 -- pustule@world.std.com "At the prompt, please type 'kill -HUP $$'" ______________________________ From: bsherman@acsu.buffalo.edu (Brian C. Sherman) Subject: mailer fuckups, aside, here's my .02 Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:38:31 EST > +I am really concerned tho about drug use on-board, has there been any > discussion on how to deal with that aspect? --- > Either way tho' I think that some sort of constraint (I > +hate that word) would have to be set - otherwise.....chaos... > I agree ... the reason I asked about the FAQ was that > +drug use was mentioned but not in a function of control --- > ok great! - I did notice that there was some early > +talk on drug use and some mention of what to do with violators of > +a code of conduct... --- > I don't know ... the two trickiest issues will be > +security and drug/alcohol use/abuse > that is the kind of stuff that warrants a severe psyche > +screen for applicants tho' > and even then it seems that by implementing a screen your > +effectively negating the effect of a free society... > oh yea ... MAJOR psych screens beforehand ... but, of > +course, who makes the rules and who knows if those 'in charge' are > +in line? > def agree on that point - who will be the leader - another > +Jim Jones? ;) > well, it depends what you call free ... past drug > +use/abuse HAS to be a factor ... yea, heh, that'll be the name: > +SS Jim Jones II > All hands on board SS Jim Jones II I can understand some of the possible problems with current drug usage, especially if it inhibits performance. However, why does past drug usage become a factor? What does it mean? For example - there was a time when I used alcohol as a regulating system to help me deal with the world. I drank often, and in quantity. I realized that this was an unwise regulating system, with many long and short term effects that are... unpleasant. I stopped using alcohol to run my life. I can go out and have a couple social drinks. I can go out and get blasted off my ass. I think that alcohol is, for the most part, stupid. It gets in the way of the way I want my body and mind to function. I don't drink all that much anymore. If anything, the past drug usage in my situation led me to a better understanding of my life. You would tell me that this is negative and not positive? That it must be a factor as to whether I'm the kind of person with the internal strength necessary to be part of an intentional community? Sounds ridiculous to me. I don't think past usage of substances has any bearing. Current usage does, if we are not a 'free country'. If we are not, then the flag we fly under must govern drug policy. Otherwise, drug usage could be a way for an unhappy government to blow us outta the water. Actually, drug usage would allow countries to create propaganda campaigns that would get us squashed anyways. What UN agreements are there on drug usage, if any? Are there any 'global guidelines'? Ob_Personal_Opinion: If one individual's drug usage does not dampen their effectiveness in fulfilling their societal role, it's nobody else's damn business. Example: Joe likes to get rip-roaring drunk, but he does it only after scheduling down-time from work and responsibilities. "Wow, I've got 24hrs free, let's grab so Bud!" The deal with a closed system utilizing a small number of people is that there is less chance for that kind of scheduled down-time. If the populace must be on 24 hour call for emergencies, then there is no down-time, and thus, drug usage that impairs performance can not fit into the equation. Feel free to substitute your drug of choice where I have indicated alcohol. And the psych-screening - What do you hope to achieve with that? Who are you attempting to filter out? People who haven't learned how to give the 'correct' answers on psych tests? (Timothy Leary) Oh well, enough for one rant. Comments? -Brian ______________________________ Subject: clothing From: Chaos Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 17:42:09 -0500 i'm in a shitty mood, but heck, I was dared to tell you what I am wearing. Ok, I'm wearing blue jeans, two plaid shirts that clash!, and a really nice shirt i got yesterday for late christmas.. Its from this nature shop and it has an illustration of a really weird looking frog on it. definately an acid picture. of course, i am too lazy to capitalize anything. fuck the world - Chaos (s442223@nexus.yorku.ca) "i can't even touch you." "feh. women." ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: re: the seduction by/of tech. Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 16:45:12 CST ______________________________ From: the! I think what Ms. Balsamo(sp) was speaking to was that technology, for some of us (sometimes), can be the be-all of existence. An example would be someone receiving every tech related list, FC included, and just using all this techie info to pattern their lives around. She means to say that this is a very narrow interpretation of what technology can do for us and how we should be looking at the development & uses of all this neto-gee-whiz tech as things to, hopefully, improve our lives on this organic, interconnected sphere. Tu comprends? Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: re: cyber-clothing(?) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 16:52:15 CST ______________________________ From: the! I recall a few months back Andy getting into a discussion with a number of people about being a cyber-poseur. He said he buys much of the clothing he wears from The Gap and such. I tend to fall into the same category, as far as clothing is concerned; thus, I have the tendency to surprise people, if not completely put them off, when they finally get to know the knitty-gritty of what I'm all about. Oh, yea. I'm currently wearing a white & blue striped button-down shirt and underneath it a forest-green t-shirt. I'm also wearing a pair of khaky brown pleated pants and brown Doc Marten-type shoes (with green sox to match the t-shirt, of course ;-). ->I can start with myself so you all won't feel alone: Right now I'm ->wearing a black t-shirt and a pair of worn out black jeans and John ->Lennon type glasses resting on my nose. I usually wear a black, ->thread-bare, coat when hitting the streets. Sounds like you spend a lot of time reading William Gibson stuff, eh? ->mikael cardell Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ Date: 25 Jan 93 17:50:06 EST From: Huy.Nghiem@Dartmouth.EDU Subject: Re: clothing White sweat-shirt and blue Levi's are a style ("case," as in casual [very hard to spell phonetically [wonder if Willy Gibson considered this in naming famed protagonist?]]). And those who don't wear those "SBT boots" verily wear black Reeboks. Black BOKS, as you call them, are verily trendy anti-culture fatigue shoes, at least in L.A. My skater-Gothic-ska friend wears them. And so do the gang bangers. In a psycho-social context, black has two strong meanings. One is death/anti-social; and the other is intrigue/mystery. Both themes are against the common grain of society. Blue Levi's are the epitome of clothes trends. Over the years [they've been around I recall since the mid-19th C?], the utilitarian appeal of jeans (and it's connotative use by the lowly "blue" collar worker/farmer) has turned into a retro-aesthetic. Post-modernism has brought about notable variations: shredded jeans, designer jeans, and black jeans. The torn at the knee and/or butt look is a complete anti-utilitarian and anti-social twist from the original purpose and desire of jeans: that they were durable and lasted long. Designer jeans stylize lower-class clothes and produce a twisted social aesthetic, like the 19th C French mode of dressing like the "quaint, romantic" peasantry, esp. with the addition of colors beyond uniform, utilitarian blue (e.g. green, white, orange, etc...). Black jeans note a resurgance in their para-militarism and spartan, utilitarian aesthetics -- it is the an attempt to return to the rebellious past. In a sense, the clothes can make the man. Society makes empirical generalizations about you from the clothes you wear, and you cannot escape the eye of society. To define yourself as "alternative" is to define yourself as an opposite of society, a reaction to its actions, a product of its processes. Every wage slave and CEO and netrunner has a niche in society, a necessary social role. The only question is whether you define your niche, or let society do it for you. No matter how you dress, you will be pidgeonholed whether you're coined a Goth or a GQ man or a suit... They will all come up with something to call you. Labeling (generalizing) is human nature. I don't condone or condemn, I just do according to my own personal aesthetic -- my aesthetic, not society's. If I don't like my clothes, I'll change them. That's it. Personally, society can bite me. ;) Awright, those are my observations. Quick, some fascist leftist or humanitarian right-winger shoot me down. ;) Percival@Dartmouth.EDU "Carpe caro -- seize the meat!" ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 14:50:48 -0800 From: tmaddox@netcom.com (Tom Maddox) Subject: Re: cyberspace ?! >In the vein of the discussion of "hacker" recently: >I must protest the growing use of the term "cyberspace" for the virtual >space created by large networks. Protest ahead. It probably won't do you any good, though. >My dictionary defines "cybernation" as >"the automatic control of a process or operation (as in manufacturing) by >means of a computer" and "cybernetics" as " the science of communication >and control theory that is concerned esp. with the comparative study of >automatic control systems (as the nervous system and brain and >mechanical-electrical communication systems)". People make meanings (and dictionaries). Dictionaries are at best imperfect reflections of the meaning-making process. >So, "cyberspace" would be >all about control and NOT communication. If language were logical, and we were stuck with derivations that remained consonant with the words they're derived from. But we're not. Also note that "cyberspace" acquired currency because of the success of _Neuromancer_ (and cyberpunk in general, I suppose) *and* because such a word was desperately needed -- like the term "cyberpunk," cyberspace refers to much more than any etymological analysis could reveal. You need to look at usage, not at dictionaries. >The opposite (I hope) of what we >have in mind. The prefix "cyber" is one of those cool sounding but often >misused technospeak tidbits. Surely we can come up with a more accurate >piece of jargon to refer to "network space" without co-opting (and >corrupting) another perfectly useful term. If WE can't keep our language >accurate, what are the media going to do? If you want to lead a sort of French Academy charge into Future-Culture, knock yourself out, but I doubt you'll get far. And while you're at it, are you going to insist on a new word for "computer"? Ah yes, one more thing: the Modernist project (urged by people like T. S. Eliot and Ezra Pound) to "purify the language of the tribe" is an essentially conservative one, probably an elitist one as well. It assumes that *we know better*. However, the tribe goes on about its business, (mis) appropriating "hacker," "computer," "cyberspace," etc. The street has its own uses for words, as it were. Yours, Tom Maddox tmaddox@netcom.com ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:58:15 EST From: Kelly J. Cooper Subject: clothes? Um ... Um, an off-white unbleached cotton T, a red St. John's Bay chammois cloth/flannel shirt (XXL/XT so I swim in it, but it's way comfortable) with random hardware in the pockets & sleeves rolled up, Levi's jeans, left sock is purple, right sock is red, left sneaker is white, right sneaker is blue (brand is FILA). On damp days, they're generic sturdy work boots (both brown). Jacket is brown leather, bomber style; or a dark blue hooded sweatshirt on warmer days. On cold days, tie-dyed silk longjohn bottoms under my jeans. No threadbare long coat, no reflective sunglasses, no Doc Martins, no skull decorations. I'm damn near the only woman I know w/out pierced ears. No jewelry except a silver ring (right hand) my mother gave me years go. Shaggy brown hair, shortish in front, long in back. Mainly, tho', I tend to wear attitude. One size fits all. Kelly J. Cooper kjc@cs.rutgers.edu ______________________________ From: mtressle@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Soma Holiday) Subject: hey buddy what ya wearing.. [D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D[D Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:10:00 EST Fellow BSU Fellow mondays@bsu-cs.bsu.edu questions: => =>hmm, wonder what my neighbors mom is wearing? => The Mailman. And to add to the wardrobe Frage, BOKS walking shoes, white tube socks Hanes regular underwear, light light blue jeans, Front 242 >TFY< shirt under a blue button-up psudea paisley pattern (As in no paisley itself, but the idea is there), Maroon wire glasses (which actually look black), and a relatively regular haircut. I just had to respond with the Mailman. Sorry, you may now repair your damaged humour circuitry... =>-- => =>============================================================================== =>****************************************************************************** =>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ => frederick myers mondays@bsu-cs.bsu.edu 00fwmyers@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu => exel@netcom.com plus a few others... 317.286.1511 Muncie IN =>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ => hemp 4 victory! -- fun WWII propaganda =>------------------------------------------------------------------------------ =>============================================================================== =>****************************************************************************** => -- mike mtressle@bsu-cs.bsu.edu mtressle@lovelace.bsu.edu 00MBTRESSLER@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu _I_ want a piece of MEAT! ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:27:02 EST From: dewind@acsu.buffalo.edu (Padraig) Subject: Clothes Hmmm...lets see Black jeans, Black button down shirt, violet socks, brown & black hiking boots, Long hair in a tail, and lots o' scruff (due to shear lazyness not due to some don johnson wannabe thing) My $.02 worth. -Padriag ______________________________________________________________________________ Patrick DeWind | dewind@lictor.acsu.buffalo.edu SUNY at Buffalo | V077PW3W@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU | ACSOPTD@UBVMS.BITNET "She's been everybody else's girl...maybe | one day she'll be her own." Tori Amos |Be afraid! Be VERY afraid!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ______________________________ Subject: clothes.. Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:21:46 EST From: Mitchell Porter Plain blue shorts, plain blue shirt, both pretty dirty at present. No footwear. Heh. ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: Re: yanking up the WIRING Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:32:11 CST ______________________________ From: the! I would also love this to happen, but most of us use PC's pr even dumb-terminal to do most of our net.work. Myself, I am lucky enough to have access to various x-terms around campus, but this is only because I'm a software consultant for CSD. Hopefully it'll become easier in the near future for 'The Rest of Us' to have access to the types of communication you spoke of. Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 18:34:09 EST From: bhd0@Lehigh.EDU (-heather) Subject: Clothing I like what Nowhere man said about wearing disparate clothing each day. Probably because I do. F'rinstance, today I'm wearing a purple football jersey, jeans (with a natural rip in the knee, they tore when I tripped one time), and white, beat up Chucks. But if you asked me tomorrow, I might be dressed "conservative" (dress pants and a tweed blazer), "radical" (psychedelic stirrup pants, an anarchy t-shirt and docs), or who knows? Maybe those of us not wearing labels on our clothes really are, in a way. Who's to say what style is typical here? From reading some things said here, it seems like those trying to dress different are dressing the same as all the rest of them... just getting a word in e d g e w i s e ! :)e -h *******WARNING-reading all my quotes could take a long time.****** **************** newest ones are at the top **************** "Spread peanut butter, not AIDS" -Cynthia Nelson "Fear is a little darkroom where negatives are developed." "Closets Are For Clothes." -seen at "From All Walks of Life", a Boston walk-a-thon to benefit AIDS research "The other day I was...oh, wait a minute, that wasn't me..." -Steven Wright "If all of the ignorance in the world passed a second ago, what would you say, and who would you obey?" -Live "If I don't know what's cool, will they call me a loser? If I don't bend the rules, will I stay a loser?" -Ned's Atomic Dustbin "When we are alone, you are the cat, you are the phone, you are an animal. Words I'm sayin' now mean nothing more than meow to an animal. Wake up! Smell the catfood in your bank account. Don't try to stop the tail that wags the hound." -They Might Be Giants "Stop yawning. Start yearning" -Ned's "Ninety-nine percent of the people in this world are fools. The rest of us are in danger of contagion." -Thorton Wilder "Sometimes the light's all shining on me...other times I can barely see...lately it occurrs to me... what a long, strange trip it's been" -The Dead "It's 106 miles to Chicago, we have a full tank of gas, a half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark out, and we're wearing sunglasses." -Elwood "Hit It." -Joliet Jake "Men go crazy in congregations, they only get better one by one." -Gordon Sumner "Do you love?" -Stephen King ______________________________ Subject: clothing, a la philip k dick Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:28:19 EST From: Mitchell Porter Just now on the Philip K Dick list (email pkd-list-request@wang.com to get on it), someone has said: [stuff deleted] >The clothing in Ubik. The standard business suit (for men) was something >like middie blouse, pink tutu, and military-style visored cap. how's that for future shock? ______________________________ From: mcarpent@ecn.purdue.edu (Matthew A Carpenter) Subject: RE : clothing Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:41:40 EST Hiya, Sitting at my comp, I'm wearing blue jeans, white high-tops, socks, grey button-down shirt, watch, silver ring (made myself) and dat's it. Pretty pathetic ain't it. I bet you can tell I really followed the fashion schene. <> Matt slowly reaches into his pocket, pulls out his portable, field stabalized vaccuum contained anti-matter bomb (just go along with me on this one); looks over his shoulder at the laughing peanut gallery; and tosses the bottle in his hand a few time. Finally, with a wicked grin, hurles the explosive at the gallery. In fright, the gallery tries to run for it, but to no evail, and is completely consumed by the erupting ball of fire. As the dust clears away, the peanut gallery is seen daised, confused and rather burnt. "Dat's vat ya' git fur messin' wif a geek, mon. But then again, I guess you ain't no stinkin' peanut gallery no more. Now we call you 'The ROASTED Peanut Gallery'" yells Matt, getting revenge on the group. "And make it a technogeek next time!" -Matt The text is regular price. The spelling mistakes are extra. ______________________________ From: mtressle@bsu-cs.bsu.edu (Soma Holiday) Subject: Re: yanking up the WIRING Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:42:55 EST ______________________________ From: ever-so! I don't know what machine in particular he's speaking of, but there are certain standards for sound and vision (WHere's Bowie?) which are multi platform: GIF, JPG, .Wav etc. It might be clumsy, but it is a start...What the big problem I see is the net being a bit slow too handle the large files neede to transmit these things. => =>Steve J. White =>----------------------------------------------------------------------------- =>The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu =>sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu => -- mike mtressle@bsu-cs.bsu.edu mtressle@lovelace.bsu.edu 00MBTRESSLER@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu _I_ want a piece of MEAT! ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: re: drug use on AUtopia Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:54:54 CST I guess you had to be there. The conversation that was going on wasn't necessarily entirely about drug use so maybe one of my points didn't come up. I really didn't intend to sound like I wanted mandatory drug testing. I wouldn't want this, it would be detrimental(sp) to the whole point of the community. Drug use on-board would be a problem, though. I fully realize that some want to use recreational drugs. I personally wouldn't want to, especialy living on a ship. It can be a bit dangerous so one never knows. Anyway... the point that WAS being discussed was what would be done with those who exhibit drug addiction and the problems which are connected with it. Expulsion from the society? A prison (brig) sentence? Forced to live on-deck for a period of time? Comments? Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:08:05 -0500 From: baim@aaec1.aaec.com Subject: Re: cyberspace ?! >People make meanings (and dictionaries). Dictionaries are at best >imperfect reflections of the meaning-making process. My my, how defensive. Funny, I assume you are aware of the version of this used by gun enthusiasts. The attitude is "I make my rules, you make your rules, don't fence me in...". If we didn't need language to communicate, fine. I would hesitate, though, to adopt a new word for the concept of "fire" (such as "bravo". Think of all those theater-goers :-( I'll avoid the bit about "If they jumped off the roof... Inventing new words and usages is a venerable tradition. Shakespeare invented hundreds. Of course, he was Shakespeare. > >>So, "cyberspace" would be >>all about control and NOT communication. > > If language were logical, and we were stuck with derivations that >remained consonant with the words they're derived from. But we're not. We're not stuck with anything except each other. > Also note that "cyberspace" acquired currency because of the >success of _Neuromancer_ (and cyberpunk in general, I suppose) *and* >because such a word was desperately needed -- like the term "cyberpunk," >cyberspace refers to much more than any etymological analysis could reveal. >You need to look at usage, not at dictionaries. The problem is, that you may be perfectly intelligible to the readers of the "Neuromancer" books, and no one else. Unless you're willing to include a synopsis whenever you use a "new" word, the reader is left with etymology as their only tool to guess your meaning (ok, etymology AND their trusty dictionary). At least, if I coin the word "frobloid", no one will assume they know what it means. > >>The opposite (I hope) of what we >>have in mind. The prefix "cyber" is one of those cool sounding but often >>misused technospeak tidbits. Surely we can come up with a more accurate >>piece of jargon to refer to "network space" without co-opting (and >>corrupting) another perfectly useful term. If WE can't keep our language >>accurate, what are the media going to do? > > If you want to lead a sort of French Academy charge into >Future-Culture, knock yourself out, but I doubt you'll get far. And while >you're at it, are you going to insist on a new word for "computer"? Piffle. This is ranting. > > Ah yes, one more thing: the Modernist project (urged by people >like T. S. Eliot and Ezra Pound) to "purify the language of the tribe" is >an essentially conservative one, probably an elitist one as well. It >assumes that *we know better*. However, the tribe goes on about its >business, (mis) appropriating "hacker," "computer," "cyberspace," etc. Indeed, and the tribe continues to kill, maim, and rob one another, in part because they don't understand each other. > The >street has its own uses for words, as it were. > So, you counsel a sort of lingual nihilism? Or better yet, a form of "catch-up": I'll keep inventing new words and, IF YOU'RE PART OF THE IN CROWD, you'll know what they mean. Sounds elitist to me. Be cautious, to paraphrase Pogo: the thought police may be YOU. You are saying that YOU know better. In a medium with wonderful but limited opportunity for interpersonal interaction, words are your only commodity. Don't pass wooden nickels as the real thing. Street language has its place: the street. Regards, Paul Baim ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:18:52 EST From: majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu (Murali) Subject: subculture and clothing Naked. Murali majcher@acsu.buffalo.edu "I am forever in your debt!" New Edge Consulting Services | "Nonsense...how can a friend P.O. Box 156, Amherst, NY 14226 | be in debt?" Voice: (716) 834-1648 -From Russia With Love ______________________________ From: rwr9481@cs.rit.edu (Robert W Reay) Subject: Re: subculture and clothing Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:49:11 -0500 (EST) Black BDU pants, black socks, white very trashed sneakers. A Refuse & Resist T-shirt. For jewlery, I'm wearing 3 leather and bead bracelets and 8 feet of beed chain on my right wrist, a ying/yang earing in my right ear, a 12 ga. bead ring (in a streched piercing) and a "baby in bondage" in my left ear. On my way home, I'll be wearing a black leather motorcycle jacket w/ 3" spikes on the left shoulder and about 2 lbs. of metal in general on it. You caught me on a really good day. For bussiness type situations, I wear a suit european cut, conservative grey, slick my hair back and wear just a silver ring in my left ear. Most of the time jeans an t-shirt, like everyone else. -Rob ______________________________ From: ahawks (prozac) Subject: Re: subculture and clothing Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:52:58 MST New fresh-scented *cardell@lysator.liu.se* (150% real fruit juices!) says: | |Just recently I found an old paper I wrote about subcultures. In it I |stressed the importance of clothing in various cultures. Now I wonder, |out of sheer curiosity, what the readers of FC wear at this moment. |Sure, one can discuss if Random J. Futuroid is a member of a certain |subculture, for example the cyberpunk culture (haven't deciced if I |like that word yet), but for this little experiment let's say that he |is. Well, what are you wearing while reading this? :) | |I can start with myself so you all won't feel alone: Right now I'm |wearing a black t-shirt and a pair of worn out black jeans and John |Lennon type glasses resting on my nose. I usually wear a black, |thread-bare, coat when hitting the streets. I have yet to peruse the 40 or so messages relating to this topic, but I'm sure it's drawn some undue criticism by those who feel the topic is wank or not important, or some genius will offer up "I'm not wearing anything"..... I've been thinking a lot about clothes lately, mostly because I badly need some new ones.....I think clothes are a reflection of the gridpoint between personal style and consensus labeling - I have yet to see a person truly dress individualistic (except The Naked Guy in Berkeley, maybe - that's just about the only truly individualistic type of dress)...However, I see multidudes dress to conform within conforming to the conformity of consensus reality.... Not much really wrong with that, IMHO.... You can't live in society without society having an influence on you.... I bought a hat today, a Split hat, and decided clothes are more important than seeing Moby and Prodigy live in concert tonite.... Another clothes note - look how the subcultures are intertwining, semmingly all the way across the US: thrash and shred clothes (skate/snowboard) mixes with rave clothes which are mixing with trendy style (using trendy as a noun, a culture).... Ok, our next model, Andy, features a "no, I'm not a skinhead I'm a raver" closely-clipped hairdo (w/ sideburns)....cheapie silver ear-stud by Claire's Boutique.....hat by Split...multi-colored striped, hooded baggy shirt by Clobber....baggy t-shirt under that featuring the slogan "T.V. Lies" by Sjobeck....baggy navy jeans by Gap... shoes are black, black-laced Gibson Doc's.... lying on the floor are dirty XL and XXL t-shirts by Sjobeck, Clobber, 26 Red, Fresh Jive. -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:52:20 MST From: Juggler Subject: Clothes and the person Hey, clothes make the person. People do and have always looked at how you dress and then decide who you are. I try not to but it cannot be helped sometimes... Maybe it's genetic? nah... Anyways, right now i'm wearing: a white, thermal shirt, cut-off grey sweat pants, white, tube socks, and black, standard issue combat boots. (easy to get in a town with a military base! say $10) Also, a silver hoop earring with a silver claw holding a rose quartz ball hangin from it. Long, blonde-red hair tied back. Pretty basic. As for the trend in clothes: Yeah, so what if there is a trend. The only thing to define (truly) a person is their actions and self. I've met the yuppiest of yuppiest looking people and found they are cooler than any guy in mirrorshades and leather jacket. Oh yeah, speaking of leather jackets: anyone ever do anything cool (design wise) with theirs? I like the idea of making it your own. Kinda like the dude with the Celtic designs. I have a friend who painted on the Sub-Pop design, a Harley Davidson design and other junk. Anything? -Juggler -------------------------------------------------------- | Juggler |I'd like to for lettin me | | IH23@utep.BITNET |be mice elf again- Sly and | | IH23@utepvm.ep.utexas.edu| the Family Stone | |******************************************|-----------| | Sysop of Three Ring Circus (915)564-0026 | -------------------------------------------- My school doesn't have opinions.... ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:58:38 MST From: Juggler Subject: re: drug use on AUtopia > Anyway... the point that WAS being discussed was what would be done with > those who exhibit drug addiction and the problems which are connected with > it. Expulsion from the society? A prison (brig) sentence? Forced to live > on-deck for a period of time? Comments? It's really silly that our society is out to get EVERY drug user they can find. From what I understand you're talking about above you mean the Navy catching someone who was using drugs. I think that if they catch someone who was using drugs, but it hasn't impaired his job at all then he should get off. If he gets caught cuz he say kills someone acidentally while on drugs, he should be prosecuted as such. The gov't tends to want to ban anything that makes us feel good. Then, they help import drugs and all. Ya know they are.. But at any rate, that's my two meager, rusty cents. -Juggler -------------------------------------------------------- | Juggler |I'd like to for lettin me | | IH23@utep.BITNET |be mice elf again- Sly and | | IH23@utepvm.ep.utexas.edu| the Family Stone | |******************************************|-----------| | Sysop of Three Ring Circus (915)564-0026 | -------------------------------------------- My school doesn't have opinions.... ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:02:14 CST From: raunn@cs.tamu.edu (Raun D Nohavitza) Subject: Re: subculture and clothing > Just recently I found an old paper I wrote about subcultures. In it I > stressed the importance of clothing in various cultures. Now I wonder, > out of sheer curiosity, what the readers of FC wear at this moment. Faded blue 501's, Converse All Star high-tops, Lollapalooza '92 t-shirt, open blue flannel, rounded glasses. Silver charm around neck and silver-leather weave bracelet on right wrist. Large silver ring on right pinky. Marlboro mediums soft pack in flannel pocket. Slight grin. :) Do we get to sit in a circle and try to remember each-other's names too? Raun raunn@cs.tamu.edu "Tune in, Turn on, Atrophy." ______________________________ From: Shalmaneser Subject: Brunner Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 17:10:19 PST Funny the name of John Brunner should come up.. A couple years ago my friend came over to my house and brought his copy of Children of Thunder (by JB) with him. He left it at my house by accident and I read it.. and a few days after I finished it, there was a copy of Stand on Zanzibar on a rack of "free! take one.." books at my high school library. And for a few years I tried to get past the first hundred pages... at least eight times.. and I didn't until this past December when I finally started reading the thing, and now I'm on about 400. This is a truly amazing book.. there are endless things from it which would make fodder for this list.. the methods he uses, the portrait of the future world it takes place in.. it's incredible.. And he seems to be still writing, because Children of Thunder was 1989 or so. Kevin ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: re: drug use on AUtopia Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:14:46 CST ______________________________ From: the! This is a tough call. Life on a ship, if that's what we'd end up doing, is difficult and dangerous. Having people using drugs even as recreation COUD be a problem. Notice I didn't use the word 'would'. I think it would have to be dealt with on a case-to-case basis. With the lives of possibly thousands, or at least hundreds, on-board rampant drug use would be a serious problem. ->The gov't tends to want to ban anything that makes us feel good. Then, ->they help import drugs and all. Ya know they are.. But at any rate, ->that's my two meager, rusty cents. I know, I know. The US gov't. brings the shit in and then put the users behind bars, especially those of color. Go figure. How did They {tm} ever figure out a way to develop a society which is a bizarre combination of anarchic democracy and a totalitarian state. Magic, I guess. ->-------------------------------------------------------- ->| Juggler |I'd like to for lettin me | ->| IH23@utep.BITNET |be mice elf again- Sly and | ->| IH23@utepvm.ep.utexas.edu| the Family Stone | ->|******************************************|-----------| ->| Sysop of Three Ring Circus (915)564-0026 | ->-------------------------------------------- -> My school doesn't have opinions.... Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ From: fly@geog.buffalo.edu (Paul Fly) Subject: re: drug use on AUtopia (fwd) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 20:29:54 EST > This is a tough call. Life on a ship, if that's what we'd end up doing, is > difficult and dangerous. Having people using drugs even as recreation COUD > be a problem. Notice I didn't use the word 'would'. I think it would have > to be dealt with on a case-to-case basis. With the lives of possibly > thousands, or at least hundreds, on-board rampant drug use would be a > serious problem. It seems to me that a prohibition of drug use, *enforced*, as I think it could, quite effectively on a ship, might cause more harm than good. Imagine an occasional dionysian rave type of activity, for example. Dangerous, perhaps... more so than carefully reading in your room, but better for the well being of the self and the collective whole, methinks. > I know, I know. The US gov't. brings the shit in and then put the users > behind bars, especially those of color. Go figure. How did They {tm} ever > figure out a way to develop a society which is a bizarre combination of > anarchic democracy and a totalitarian state. Magic, I guess. I tend to see the system as having evolved to its current state. The weird and often contradictory ways in which it operates occured for *reasons*, although whether those reasons are needed or even relevant anymore is another question. No one is in charge, imho. The system twists and mutates by force of its own internal inertia and the tiny pushes and pulls exerted on it, and a sum whole. Hard to predict, harder to understand. Definitely not designed, so to look for a rational design model is possibly looking for an invisible thing... Paul -- Paul Fly | "Thinking is more interesting than knowing, but fly@geog.buffalo.edu | less interesting than looking." --Goethe ______________________________ From: Ess-tee-ee-vee-ee Subject: #Future on IRC... again Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 19:32:04 CST Okay, babies. Here's my updated work schedule for at school. These are times when you will most likely find someone, namely me, sitting in #Future on IRC: Monday 2100-0300 UT Thursday 1500-1900 UT Friday 1900-2300 UT Drop by and say hi. Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ From: ahawks (prozac) Subject: The Doc'ers Club (as seen on TV) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:34:37 MST Couple notes on the couture (sp?) thread so-far: -=) Clothes are important...Nuff said....Maybe not to you as an individual, and that's fine, but, you might wanna open your eyes a bit more if you think noone looks at what you wear or cares about what you wear...And those who say "I always dress for me", that's cool, but you're always just one small part of the constantly interactive bouncing and ricocheting ball of style of society, whether you like it or not, whether you go naked or dress like an eskimo, or a punk, or shop at K-Mart, or any of a million malls.... -=) Should we rename this group the Doc'ers Club? Damn.... How much are people paying for Doc's these days? How available are they in malls in different areas? You can get the newer ones at Kinney Shoes around here....$99, $109 for 8 hole....But 8 holes around here are still reserved for the skin'ies.... -=) I didn't get the impression that colorfulness was a desirable aspect either.....I like lots of colour in my clothes... I get so sick of basic black...People seem to feel you can't really be identified as alternative, or industrial, or a cyberpunk, or beatnik, or whatever if you don't dress black...poppycock... I wish more people would break away from the coffeehouse syndrome of style.... -=) I forgot my glasses...round black-rimmed, I don't know the company... -=) socks by Hanes (I think), navy-and-white striped boxers that I got at Target.... -=) Labels, names: not that many people mentioned much other than Levi's...Maybe it's just me and part of the impact of rave culture on me, but I notice names and labels and trademarks, not just the ole' standby of Levi's....I think that's one of the reason I like modern street fashion -- a lot of modern-day street fashion is by local or lesser-known companies that make their name known, and make sure you know it...Therefore, you see a lot of younger kids (college age and below) becoming D.I.Y. marketeers for home-grown fashion labels....Like, I mentioned Clobber... I think Clobber is local, but I'm not sure.... What makes D.I.Y. street-fashion appealing to me is not only the obvious synthetic quality of an acceptance of modern pop culture, but *sampling* (appropriating) from the synthetic qualities of pop culture, and not sampling them in a way that is rebellious or alternative, but producing a product that becomes mainstream by feeding off the mainstream.... Here's some examples of what I'm talking about... I don't know if 26 Red is local or not, but they're a label that produces hats and shirts and stuff like that....I have a couple of their shirts...One has a warped picture of Toucan Sam on it, right next to the 26 Red label...Another one on the back has a picture of Charlie the Tuna, and says "Human Safe" on it....This is not plagurism, it's sampling..... At any rate, this trend is popular in rave culture, as I'm sure many of you who rave are aware...Flyers and shirts sample everything, specifically products with bright colour and catchy-phrases as seen in laundry detergents (like my 150% real fruit-juices header).... Hey, someone get Cindy Crawford on this list... -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 15:45:48 PST From: mark@ganymede.apple.com (Mark Baldwin) Subject: bounces sorry for mailing this to the list, but does ANYone know why every time i post to future.culture, even though the posts hit the list, i always get at least one corresponding bounce.mail from a daemon somewhere, always a different location...? does this happen to anyon3 else? it only happens at future! -mark. ______________________________ Date: 25 Jan 1993 18:34:06 -0800 (PST) From: Vlad the Impaler Subject: Re: Artificial Organisms From: IN%"s442223@nexus.yorku.ca" "Chaos" 25-JAN-1993 09:58:51.16 To: IN%"future@nyx.cs.du.edu" CC: Subj: Artificial Organisms Return-path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by POMONA.CLAREMONT.EDU (PMDF #2438 ) id <01GTXJWQVVA88ZECNM@POMONA.CLAREMONT.EDU>; Mon, 25 Jan 1993 09:58:39 PST Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA29024; Mon, 25 Jan 93 12:55:44 -0500 Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21855; Mon, 25 Jan 93 10:56:08 MST Received: by nexus.yorku.ca id <9220>; Mon, 25 Jan 1993 12:54:16 -0500 Date: 25 Jan 1993 12:54:10 -0500 From: Chaos Subject: Artificial Organisms To: future@nyx.cs.du.edu Message-id: <93Jan25.125416est.9220@nexus.yorku.ca> X-Envelope-to: BAMBROSE Content-type: text Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL17] Content-Length: 652 I've thought a bit about doing some artificial organisms myself, and I think the neatest way to do it would be on a MUD. if you don't know what a MUD is, its mostly like a multiuser text adventure, where the players themselves can modify/extend the world. Anyways, I was thinking along the lines of having a special mud set up for creating artificial life. We could use a mud server with a programming language so we could program special behaviours and mating stuff etc. The cool part is that we can watch the things that happen, and tweak things as they happen, etc. -Chaos (s442223@nexus.yorku.ca). "i am not cold; you are my electric blanket." ______________________________ Date: 25 Jan 1993 19:01:44 -0800 (PST) From: Vlad the Impaler Subject: Re: Artificial Organisms Oops, sorry bout that, forgot to edit what I was replying to. Shoot me. Anyway, thought I'd rant about Artificial Life from my ignorant corner: First, I like the idea of setting up the study on a MUD of sorts. By having us (the experimenters) as remote terminals that interact with some central machine containing code for both the simulated world and our individual "smart" organisms, the problem of code size, and having these huge AI programs that have to bounce around the internet just to interact. In considering this sort of set up, there are several things that need to be considered. Is it even possible, ultimately, to make anything truly "artificially intelligent"? If it is should solely software be used, or should a combination of software and hardware be integrated? Brian Penrose (think that's the name) addresses the subject in a rather good manner in his book "The Emperor's New Mind". Though he takes a weak-AI point (truly intelligent machines are not possible) versus strong-AI (which I'm inclined to lean towards, which states that AI constructions will eventually possible), the book is still very informative if you can wade through it. Of course there are various positions within strong and weak AI, but you get the point. So first we have to assume that strong AI is somehow feasible, or even if it isn't it is at least approximatedable with models (cs is the study of computer models after all). The MUD idea is also very good idea, becasue it would allow researchers from all over to construct their own individuals and compare them to fellow researcher's model organisms by the ways they react, learn, and interact socially. With the proper spirit of collaboration progress could be made very quickly (ie the various researchers share and collaborate on constructing better and better organisms). Steven Levy's Artificial Life records a lot of the research currently being undertaken in the field (no I didn't finish it). What is described in the part of the book I read concerned itself with the various ways people are constructing models of organisms that interatct, reproduce, war, etc... Personally, if someone out there could bring about such a set-up (the MUD with users who can program their own organisms), with the right equipment, a lot of of interesting stuff could be done. I hesitate to be specific here, because I'm not informed enough on the subject to know exactly what and where the edge of the AI frontier is currently. However, though I still don't know a whole lot about the subject I am hoping that others who share the AI interest will respond (and thus I learn more) and perhaps get something started along the lines mentioned above. Excuse the poor continuity of the above, with 1000 people talking at once (at least it seems like it) in your room, it's difficult to concentrate on what you're doing (maybe that's why I forwarded that repeat message of Chaos's to the list :-) ). Bret Ambrose -bambrose@pomona.claremont.edu ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 22:13:28 EST From: Icky Subject: Re: subculture and clothing I'm wearing a old blue denim hat, a red turtle neck and jeans which I've been wearing for three days (wild weekend!), fresh socks, and Vasque boots. I also have some generic-looking glasses (metal frames) and a generic coat. ______________________________ Subject: Re: subculture and clothing Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 18:38:25 CST From: Paco Xander Nathan > Just recently I found an old paper I wrote about subcultures. In it I > stressed the importance of clothing in various cultures. Now I wonder, > out of sheer curiosity, what the readers of FC wear at this moment. ______________________________ From: bottom! pxn. ______________________________ Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:42:00 -0600 (CST) From: "free agent .rez" Subject: Re: subculture and clothing >like that word yet), but for this little experiment let's say that he >is. Well, what are you wearing while reading this? :) cuordoroy pants, black shoes, sheat-shirt. .rez ______________________________ Date: 25 Jan 1993 21:48:40 -0600 (CST) From: Scotto You all wear such interesting clothes. I personally am not wearing any clothes right now. So it goes, I suppose. ______________________________ From: bangell@cs.utah.edu (bob angell) Subject: Clothes/Subculture/Sucess-Failure Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 20:47:47 MST OK, I have been reading about how most *students* dress that are on this list. As a CEO and small-businessman, I see the norm of future culture out in the real world as this: Business environment: Suit, options that will make the futurist be more unique: ties, shirts, shoes (within reason ... no engineering boots here - I sometimes will wear a pair of lizard-skin boots .... ) and hair. Many choose to have beards (I do, but no cigar if you plan on working for IBM ) and tails (works in most environments, however, you must have ALOT of self-confidence). Casual environment: Pretty much what I have been reading about in terms of current fashions - however, these positions are generally backroom, away-from-the-public-eye type positions and generally dont allow for upward growth and mobility in most environments. Now, the above are fairly general and no doubt one could probably find a firm that does not adhere to the above .... your mileage will vary. Me, I am a 5'8" male that generally wears sweats when I need to develop software (most of the time w/o socks) and when I meet with clients, I have at least a pair of khacki pants and loafers along with a tie. I choose to keep my hair short (used to sport a tail.....but the short hair and beard are just about right) and tend to be very conservative around most people. Now, the future culture is still a valid subject in my mind - but one does not need to be overtly obnoxious with ones attire to share the same beliefs. -Bob- -- Bob Angell | Data Integration (multi-platform) Principal, Management Systems Engineer | Health Systems Engineering Applied Information & Management Systems | Database design/development 1238 Fenway Avenue - SLC, UT 84102-3212 | Simulation/Modeling/Neural Nets bangell@cs.utah.edu; Voice: 801-583-8544 | Product Reviewer-Major Publication [Standard Disclaimer: Speaking for the University of Utah, NOT!] ______________________________ Date: 25 Jan 1993 22:06:25 -0600 (CST) From: Scotto >I have yet to peruse the 40 or so messages relating to this topic, but >I'm sure it's drawn some undue criticism by those who feel the topic >is wank or not important, or some genius will offer up "I'm not >wearing anything"..... Damn it, Andy, you're consistently spoiling my best jokes. I of course got it from alt.romance back when *they* had this thread -- you should see the goofy shit *they* wear. Tights and stuff. Sheesh. At any rate, I will go ahead and accept your compliment -- it's been a long time since anyone called me "some genius." ______________________________ From: fly@geog.buffalo.edu (Paul Fly) Subject: no subject (file transmission) Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 23:08:10 EST Well, a response to the AI thread. I think the current trends in AI are in two camps: Logical symbol manipulation and neural nets. The best bet the logical symbol people seem to have in the near future is CyC, which is a huge "Knowledge Base" which individual clients with reasoning abilities would remotely access. The Knowledge Base would be huge (in byte terms). Neural nets are okay, but are restricted by the speed and size of computers today. This is as I understand the situation. But another question arises. When "we" on future talk about "an AI", what does that mean? Its one thing to talk about the field of AI, its another to talk about a hypoethetical, conscious, sentient AI, a la Wintermute. I think the current trends are to view such things as unique "selves". That an AI is an AI, it is itself, and nothing other. I think this is due to our own tendency to view ourselves as single entities, indivisble and unique. But I tend to think that there is no reason to restrict an "AI" this way. It is useful for "us" because our means of communication (both to others and to ourselves) is serial. Language is a one-channel linear system. Of course a species that uses it to define its world and itself would require a "stream of consciousness". But a computer program that was "conscious" would not need be restricted in such a way. If its output was serial in the form of language, it still need not be serial in consciousness, since multiprocessing is so common and "easy" to do. Such a thing (multiprocessing) is possible in theory in humans as well, but since we have only one means of outputting language, it isn't practical. Of course, I can imagine someone training themselves to talk to someone and type at the same time, perhaps holding two completely different conversations at the same time. If such a person lived their entire lives this way, they might actually develop two seperate personalities and even two seperate *seleves*, except that they would still have only one body, and they speak to themselves one way only. A program can obvious inhabit many differnt bodies. It can be copied and recopied, moved from place to place, even function as a distributed system over many "bodies". Its "body" could even be something like cyberspace. And, since it could have many means of outputting communication, it could hold many conversations at the same time. It *might* be able to talk to itself in one way only, which might restrict its consciousness, but I feel that that isn't necessary. How such a thing might come into existance I don't know. The CyC people I think are on the right track, although I think neural nets have more future potential. Its hard to say. The idea of creating a MUD in which artifical life can be created and watched etc, is fascinating: I like it. Although I would be hesitant to call the creatures living there "AIs", except in a very loose sense. I think such a MUD could go one of two possible ways as far as structure goes. One, it could make the "units of construction" very small. Something like Tom Ray's Tierra program. The created by tierra could barely even be called single cell organisms (by analogy---ther eare no actual cells...). The building blocks are on the level of assembly code, which equates in some way to proteins, or something on that level. To create sentient life from the protein level up is so near to impossible to do "by hand" that I doubt anyone could do it, and to evolve conplex creatures this way requires more memory and processor speed and power than is available today on the biggest supercomputers. Not to say this wouldn't be interesting... Two, it could make the units of construction larger. Creatures could have "genes" that determine, say, aggresiveness. One gene for aggressiveness, one for size, one for speed, etc etc. But such a "low-fidelity" system would be too crude to create an "AI", imho. Not that it wouldn't be fun... A friend and I have been learning the basics of neural nets recently. We ftp'ed the "planet" program that is a wonderful environment one can create neural nets in. Its harder than it looks. We learned by making nets that did 2 and 3 bit binary addition, and other trivial things. Then we got one playing tic-tac-toe. I think we understand back propagation neural nets well enough now to do things like handwriting recognition and some low level vision stuff (in theory). But what we both thought would be interesting is to make an articial environment in which neural nets cuold "live" and evolve. This would be somewhat like #2 above, rather low fidelity. The neural nets could have a set number of commands they can issue and execute. Things like "attack 0,2" or something. Or, on the other hand, it could be much lower in scope, with the nets executing things like assembly like instructions into their environemtn and back into their inputs. From there, the picture is wide open, imho. But it still isn't what I would call AI except for the meaning of the word that is equivalent to "computer cognitive research", which includes *any* work with things like neural nets and genetic algorithms. But let's leave consciousness and sentience out of it, hmm? Actually, I don't think we have a choice... Paul ______________________________ From: ahawks (prozac) Subject: Newsweek is Wired Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 21:54:36 MST P.S. The release date for W I R E D is tomorrow, January 25th, so keep your info-receptors peeled. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- M E D I A --------- PROPELLER HEAD HEAVEN A techie Rolling Stone * transcribed without permission, of course, from Newsweek, Jan. 18, p.62. * guaranteed to be spell-checkally challenged. || picture of Louis Rossetto and Jane Metcalfe covers upper 1/8 of || page..They're hunched over a Mac that's got the cover on it, || Louis is smiling and is holding an open copy of Wired. || || Inset further down, below the h-line is the cover. Here's the pitch: what youth culture did for the 60's, computers are starting to do for the 90's. They change the way a generation interacts, works, plays, courts and defines itself -- and leave the fogies, both old and young, out in the cold. Back then it was renegades and free love; now it's cyberpunks and on-line sex chats. The new crowd expects more from technology than faster PCs and sharper TVs. Or so contend the publishers of Wired, an arty new high-tech magazine out of san Francisco's "Multimedia Gulch" {page 42 :: ed. note: MultiMedia Gulch is supposedly a new Silicon-Valley-esque 10-block radius in SanFran, full of renovated warehouses....I'd imagine a lot of raver's hang there as well.} that hits the stands this week. This is not altogether self-serving rhetoric. Arguing that a computer isn't an ordinary box any more than rock and roll was a musical form -- it's a lifestyle -- Wired copublisher Louis Rossetto has a vision for his magazine: to be a Rolling Stone for the computer generation, announcing its arrival and giving it voice. Unlike traditional computer magazines, Wired is less about product reviews then about the impact of technology on our culture. Using less grand rhetoric, Wired adviser and futurist Paul Saffo has called the new venture "Vanity Fair for propeller heads." The first issue, like many debuts, is a mixed bag. It has a trendy look -- a lot closer to Interview or Details than PC World -- and its stories range from a dense essay on the promise of photonic computing to a rambling talk with intellectual natterer Camille Paglia. The cover boy is Bruce Sterling, the noted cyberpunk science-fiction author. Sterling writes a solid report on the military's use of "virtual reality" [quotes sic] in battle training. Despite claims of being radically different from computer trade mags and the national press (which is "still groping for the snooze button," the editors sniff in a forward), Wired stories on such topics as sexual high-jinks on-line and computerized libraries have been around for a while -- yes, in the national press. Still, Wired has its share of surprises. New York Times reporter John Markoff's brief piece on hackers' tricks with cellular phones reveals the chilling fact that the wizards can use the phones' built-in software to track the location of other individual cellular-phone users. Some in the publishing industry doubt there's a market for the Wired blend of technology and artsy interests. Rich Karlgaard, editor of ASAP, a new technology supplement of Forbes, says, "If you get out of Silicon Valley there are not a lot of places where you find that psychographic group." One industry analyst is put off by the magazine's self-important attitude: "It's just hard to continually watch people breathe their own exhaust and wonder when they'll asphyxiate." [pardon me, , I'll be back in a sec. Damn this cough.] And if that technologically savvy culturally omnivorous audience is out there, why do they want to mess with that outdated medium, paper? Shouldn't the publication of the future be, well, digital? Take a very different kind of publication that sounds Wired's themes: Beyond Cyberpunk, a disc-based collection of articles, images and sound, all cross-referenced for on-screen reading pleasure. Gareth Branwyn [cool], one of Beyond Cyberpunk's creators, says his brainchild is "a huge critical success and has been a moderate commercial success" -- with fewer than 1000 of the $29.95 product sold. Viewing such multimedia wonders can be a hassle. You have to load it into your computer -- you can't just carry it into the bathroom for a quick read. Paper, says Rossetto, remains "the most cost-efficient and viable way of reaching the people we want to reach." He may have his eyes on the future -- but he knows that profit is in the here and now. ______________________________ From: ahawks (the original k-r0dent) Subject: Re: Newsweek is Wired Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 22:15:35 MST Just a couple comments on the Newsweek thingy.... -=) First of all, I forgot to mention it was by John Schwartz -=) Is it just me, or does the last line of the article look like someone's been on the net?!? "the here and now...eye on the future", 2 meme's that I've seen a lot of (and used a lot of) on the net lately.... -=) I liked that Gareth Branwyn was mentioned...To me he seems among the more net.soft.spoken-types as far as the edge/technocult crowd is concerned, but, that's cool that they mentioned Beyond CP.... -=) Vanity Fair for propeller heads? I don't own a beanie but I'd like to.... -=) the Forbes guy says W I R E D will lose outside of Sili-con Valley...I think that's the one key misstatement of the whole article...Sure, SV is the home to most of the origins and evolutions of technoculture and insoc-centered ideals, but, got news for 'em, it's global -- and with the prevelance of telecommunications, geogrpahy is more and more useless.... Just look at this list -- 700 people from all over the world, not all Silicon Valley, and it's run from Denver, Colorado.... -=) Finally, the reports about W I R E D I've heard so far always bring up the nah-nah-nah-nah-nah point of "it's on paper". Well, hey, got news for ya newsies, as soon as things go digital In-A-Big-Way (tm), professional publishing loses it's value 100%... Just look at the domination of small e-zines, group-centered e-lists, individual mail and posts.... There's no room for a [aargh, vocabulary failing].....There's no room for a big group with a common focus on the net, it's all individual and stuff.... crap, screw this....someone get me one of those books where it's got words that mean the same thing as other words.... BrainCrash v1.0 damn, pass the nootropics to this side of the table, boy.... -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ Subject: Artificial Organisms From: Chaos Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 00:26:51 -0500 Well, I've got a mud set up we could use. If you are interested in working on some artificial organisms then mail me with your desired character name and I will send you back the address/port and your randomly generated password. Umm, even if you aren't so keen on artifical organisms, my mud is kinda neat. Its gonna be a interesting cyberpunkish game with some cool space tech. Anyways, hope to get this going. :) - Chaos (s442223@nexus.yorku.ca) (happy) "jacking on holy days... touch you in another way" ______________________________ Date: 25 Jan 1993 20:36:28 -0800 From: Grant Beaugard Subject: Clothing Grey plaid shirt (pens, mechanical pencils, HP, etc. in pocket), Levis, monkey boots, no hair, military parka (ala Quadrophenia cover). Yes, inside a building (it's $@%&$ -50 F here!). -- Grant Beaugard, cyber-nerd extrordinare, reporting from the far North reaches of the Net. (and the home of the "Farthest North Dennys in the World!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ______________________________ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 93 21:51:04 -0800 From: Brian Willoughby Subject: Re: (subject of the day) | >I have yet to peruse the 40 or so messages relating to this topic, | >but I'm sure it's drawn some undue criticism by those who feel the | >topic is wank or not important, or some genius will offer up "I'm not | >wearing anything"..... | | Damn it, Andy, you're consistently spoiling my best jokes. I of | course got it from alt.romance back when *they* had this thread | -- you should see the goofy shit *they* wear. Tights and stuff. | Sheesh. At any rate, I will go ahead and accept your compliment | -- it's been a long time since anyone called me "some genius." Scotto, You mean you were _actually_joking? I've done a lot of programming in the nude. My girlfriend works, so I usually go to bed when she does, but if the creative urge hits me in the middle of the night, or even the next morning, I never hesitate to log in without dressing first. Its a bit cold in most of the house, but my equipment room gets quite warm with the NeXT running 24 hours a day - and as soon as I turn on that 300W halogen, things are actually hot enough despite the fact that I live in Seattle. I guess I've always taken folks seriously when they've said "hack naked". B _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________|