From - Wed Jan 14 11:43:28 1998 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by mrco.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA02148; Tue, 19 Jan 93 01:38:02 EST Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA25276; Tue, 19 Jan 93 01:37:28 -0500 Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA24413; Mon, 18 Jan 93 23:30:17 MST From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy) Message-Id: <9301190630.AA24413@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Subject: FutureCulture Digest #183 To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 23:30:17 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: R ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #183 Monday, January 18th 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- lsd -- ho hum more lsd cungradz INTERZINE #1 - A Talk with Jagwire X LSD (was: RE: your mail) OJ Rulezzzzzzzzz! Phillip K. Dick Re: Anti-Hacker Hysteria... re: CNN reoport on WIRED! Re: Phillip K. Dick re: PK Dick books Re: Prozac (was Re: your mail) Re: VIRTUAL QUESTION #1 RE: your mail Re: your mail Stuphs Weekly FC Administrivia your mail __________________________________________________________________________ From: wixer!pacoid@cs.utexas.edu (Paco Xander Nathan) Subject: Re: Anti-Hacker Hysteria... Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 0:12:29 CST > My sociologist girfriend has to do a paper for her propaganda class. > She's considering writing about anti-hacker media hysteria/propaganda > if I can supply her with enough material. > > I have some of the obvious sources (Forbes, Stuff on the 2600 Washington > Flack, EFF stuff) but I don't want to miss anything. Specifically, > anything from the past year or so is best. With print media and TV/Radio > in particular being most important (I know, I know, but the whole point > is mass media manipulation etc..) BY ALL MEANS get some info on the recent Lubbock bust.. Two students were busted for having a pirated wares BBS and using IRC on their school's system, so the SS claimed they'd sent illegally copied s/w to MILLIONS (ostensibly all of Internet, as if we cared).. Polekat or bladex might have a good posting on that.. We just heard it at HoHoCon.. pxn. ______________________________ From: wixer!pacoid@cs.utexas.edu (Paco Xander Nathan) Subject: cungradz Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 0:05:03 CST > It's time for me to catch up on the list after viewing it with only > one eye, which is half-closed, for the past week.... > > PS: I graduated high school yesteray...finally made it thru.... congradz. > The legalization of hemp is obviously gaining ground from where it > stood in the recent-past, but it is still only popular among people > who have an interest in drug culture, the masses in Kansas (instead of > Iowa =) are probably a long way away from accepting the realities that > hemp has many uses in clothes, paper, etc., and marijuana has > medicinal uses...Yet, the Kansas-public (the American masses) perceive > pot as a dangerous drug..."hey, if it's illegal, it must be bad." > > ObFutCult: will America ever re-legalize any hallucinogenic drugs > beyond just religious or psychiatric or medicinal use? What's gonna > happen if ketamine gets popular in high schools in Kansas????? > > ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation Actually, I spend a lot of time in Kansas for work.. They have fields of wild hemp growing there! Older farmers talk about when they *used* to grow it for major profit, like they were bummed by the "new" laws.. And ref the prev part of this thread, Lawrence is a MAJOR center for wood pulp production :-) Methinx the more calcified areas of the nation - conservative places like NY & CA (not the populus, but the power structure) - will be the biggest block for pharmacological deregulation, psychoactive or not.. pxn. ______________________________ From: wixer!pacoid@cs.utexas.edu (Paco Xander Nathan) Subject: Re: your mail Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 0:34:26 CST > My impression is that people who trip a *lot*, as in watch out > Tim Leary (like that one girl at my high school who said that she took > 10 hits/day) probably have built up such a tolerance that it ends up > being just a stimulant. That's what it seems like, when this guy I knew > last year told me how he was "always tripping" the previous summer-- he > was probably taking so much that it just acted as a stimulant. Isn't that the truth.. But not to be confused with major dosing at one time. Major frequency is like pissing away vitamins :-) Such a waste of good biomaterial. ______________________________ Date: 18 Jan 1993 01:52:58 -0600 (CST) From: "free agent .rez" Subject: LSD (was: RE: your mail) ahawks: >I think your statement is the perfect implication for >holding off until more research can be done, until we have a >relatively large understanding of the brain and the mind in relation >to hallucinations...This comes from scientific work, not just from >people like Lilly and Leary, and it also depends on technology, which >takes time.... >Rushing into something like this without a suficient scientific >understanding, without a sociological understanding, is IMHO just dumb >and goes against what society has learned from itself. >That is why legalization only for psychiatric use is a good idea. >From there, more can be learned and observed, and further >legalization can be contemplated. hmmm... well, seems to me that this would depend on what kind of "info" one's trying to GATHER. lsd seems to be rather "Auto-Prophetic" in it's results: like the cave on dagobah in Empire strikes back, people seem to confront/see what they take in with them. this is neither good or bad, just the way lsd seems to work, or PERHAPS how the mind itself works. heisenberg has practically formalised the AutoProphetic nature of "observation." my point is that Rigorous zooms will produce Rigorous results, all very good for Data Type X. "sit in this chair. look at this checkerboard pattern, at this hanging towel, at this mirror. dictate into this tape whether or not you see phosphors, whether or not the surface of the towel undulates and how you would characterise that undulation..." but what if the researcher is looking for Data Type Y; say, how do a group of like-or-differently minded individuals who share personal stake in each other interact while zooming together, and/or what is it like to BE one of those people?" is is "worth" sacrificing Rigorousity for some other type of experience/data? some would say so. some of these same people, however, might NOT necessarily espouse legalisation; they MAY see some sort of crucial element in gathering Data Type Y in the fact that it is illegal. "you could go to jail for what you are experiencing right now. how does that make you feel?" (and of course THAT emotion feeds back into the loop, and often, perhaps, that's where Paranoia comes from.) it also ensures that the useful experimentation with Data Type Y will be tempered all around with the common gnowledge of the volatile nature of the experience being shared. many lsd users disagree with the ABOVE as well. some espouse large quantities in empty rooms. in ANY case, a missing element, which i would hazard was missing in most cases of post-psychedelic psychotic break, was *some sort of safety-net,* people to find one's bearings in relation to again, instead of sort of twirling off into free-fall somewhere. who knows, who knows... >BTW, is it just more or does it seem that just about everyone who >trips frequently loses some sense of objectivity in their relation >with their world? It's subtle in this post, it's evident on the net, >and it's clearly visible in Timothy Leary. Personally and with my >friends I've found it to not only increase the area of subjective >reality but objective as well, but when you come to the net and talk >about it, most people seem to lose a sense of the dimensions of >society and sometimes even the fact that everyone is ultiamtely >intertwined, and everyone affects everyone, and that people function >on an infinite specrtum of sensabilities and relations. it's sometimes hard to distinguish between the "effects of the drug" and the "effects of the ideas encountered when around people who've tried the drug" and the "effects of the medium of communication in which some of these people congregate." in fact, i'd be hard-pressed these days to say that there IS much of a difference, but that's memetics, and for another time... .rez -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu Return-path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by iscsvax.uni.edu (PMDF #3072 ) id <01GTMOV8O3JK90NVHO@iscsvax.uni.edu>; Sun, 17 Jan 1993 15:21:40 CST Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA25086; Sun, 17 Jan 93 16:17:48 -0500 Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01687; Sun, 17 Jan 93 09:28:52 MST Date: 17 Jan 1993 09:28:50 -0700 (MST) From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.EDU (the bladerunner) Subject: RE: your mail In-reply-to: <9301171503.AA09241@mojave.geog.buffalo.edu>; from "Paul Fly" at Jan 17, 93 10:03 am To: future@nyx.cs.du.EDU Message-id: <9301171628.AA01687@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Envelope-to: MOORE7004, REZABEK1037 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] ______________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 00:40:53 -0800 From: salsbury@netcom.com (The Butterfly) Subject: your mail - Your half right here. Its true that these chemicals transcend -the blood/brain barrier by emulating the structure of naturally -ocurring chemicals. However, there is nothing spiritual in their -effect on the body. Acid, for instance, opens up the synaptic gap so -that 'sight' sensations might be receive as 'feelings'. The synaptic -gap contains a firing mechanism and a receptor for each of the five -senses: touch, sight, smell. sound, taste. When the gap is opened -wide, five squared posible scenarios can occur...only five of which -are 'normal.' You're half right here. (At least, the blood/brain thing seems reasonable enough to me. Second bit, though....well, truth is, no one seems to know WHY acid works. That's a nice enough sounding explanation, and jibes a bit with one of the more plausible sounding explanations for nitrous oxide effects that I've read, but I'd like to see your sources for the synaptic gap thing. I've been studying the stuff for about 4.5 years, and I've never seen an explanation like that. We just don't KNOW how it works. (There's that "we" again, Monkey-boys! :) ) And what with research being "illegal" & all. It's just left to the criminals to figure out on their own, and they can't publish their findings, and who'd beleive a criminal druggie, anyway? ;^) - Referring to the discussion on psychosis, a friend of mine -once took 14 hits of acid and tripped for the next yeaf and a half. -He was institutionalized as 'psychotic.' Go figure. -Kent Watsen "Iph this were a virus, y0u w0uld be dead right n0w, -Kent@Virginia.edu ph0rtunately it'z n0t" -- Sn0w Crash Sounds a bit heavy. Why did this person do so much? How many times had they tripped? How many times with THIS particular blotter? Had they been working up to higher dosages, or was this a "jump in with both feet" kinda plunge? Did they have any latent psychological problems? How were their personal and family lives? Etc.... These are the sorts of things that should be taken into consideration in any case like this, and there's a bevy of others. Some things to keep in mind WHENEVER you're "opening up the box (your head) to have a look inside," no matter what chemical you're using. We're not playing with tinkertoys, people. It's the fastest, most complex, most unknown, non-documented, and expensive piece of computer equipment in this section of the known Universe. Please be careful with it. :) Pat ______________________________Think For Yourself_______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury 1800 Market Street #23, San Francisco, CA 94102 Voice: 415/703-7177 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thinking for yourself can be painful. It is easier to follow the lead of popular people than to think for oneself and make one's own decision; but the people one chooses to follow may not have accurate information. -Nadja Adolf ______________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 00:29:07 -0800 From: salsbury@netcom.com (The Butterfly) Subject: your mail -But back to the subject of drugs: I once had a brief glance at the -Biochemistry book of a friend in pre-Med. Many powerful drugs like -cocaine, heroin, and LSD are very similar in molecular structure to -natural body chemicals necessary for the operation of the brain - except -that perhaps one molecule is displaced. True enough. I think you mean 'atom,' though. Usually, it's a cluster or group of atoms somewhere on the chain. Or a different isomer of the molecule. (Like LSD-25...the 25th variant of the molecule in Hofmann's experiements.) -It seems to me, although I have never experimented, that taking these -drugs is like plugging the wrong peripheral into a similarly shaped -connector. It fits, but it is not really capable of performing the -required function. This is where I think you may have run astray. In biochemistry, there are no near-fits. If it doesn't fit EXACTLY, then I think it just "doesn't fit" and nothing happens. It's like a very precise key. I think that's why viruses have to have a patch that matches some part of our DNA/whatever. So that they can bond. (Insidious little fucker's aren't they? ;^) ) -My hunch has been that LSD, et. al., don't really bring one to a "higher -consciousness" or the "true reality", these drugs just send warped messages to -the brain, and hopefully only temporarily. But I can only make a wild guess, -because that is the extent of my "research". --- -Brian Willoughby Software Design Engineer, BSEE NCSU Thanks for the disclaimer at the end. Like you said, that's your hunch, from your viewpoint. A (virgin) person watching 2 people having sex might say: "They're lurching around like crazed lunatics! Not acting in their normal mindset. Having difficulty breathing, overheated, looks like a possibly cardiac arrest case, here...." But to someone who's BEEN there.... ;^) Let's just say that...from what they tell me...once you've been there, you see things a little...differently. :) I don't think it's merely "warped messages" or delusions. I think it's that you may have been able to tune your CNS into picking up on frequencies it usually isn't receptive to. Pat ______________________________Think For Yourself_______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury 1800 Market Street #23, San Francisco, CA 94102 Voice: 415/703-7177 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thinking for yourself can be painful. It is easier to follow the lead of popular people than to think for oneself and make one's own decision; but the people one chooses to follow may not have accurate information. -Nadja Adolf ______________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 00:17:04 -0800 From: salsbury@netcom.com (The Butterfly) Subject: your mail -:If we didn't learn from our misstakes, the world would be -:*total* anarchy, history would *constantly* repeat itself. But since ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ...sounds like an endless loop to me, not total anarchy. -:we learn somewhat from our mistakes, we don't live in complete anarchy Again, "Monkey-boy" (Hehehe! It IS a term of affection! When I saw that, I KNEW it was a Murali post!), who's this "we?" What's wrong with complete anarchy? If you think there is, chances are good that you don't understand what TRUE Anarchy (tm) is all about. Condemnation is usually a very good indicator of level of familiarity/comfort with an idea. -:we learn somewhat from our mistakes, we don't live in complete anarchy I'd make this: "We ONLY learn somewhat from our mistakes. If we learned fully, we might already be living in a Complete Anarchy! (tm)" Pat (AKA - Duke Ruprecht the Monkey-Boy) ______________________________Think For Yourself_______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury 1800 Market Street #23, San Francisco, CA 94102 Voice: 415/703-7177 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thinking for yourself can be painful. It is easier to follow the lead of popular people than to think for oneself and make one's own decision; but the people one chooses to follow may not have accurate information. -Nadja Adolf ______________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 00:05:48 -0800 From: salsbury@netcom.com (The Butterfly) -Agreed. There's a group in Boston I think that's doing some work, and I think -Shulgin of course is on the case. I wonder what the procedure is for getting -permission from the government to do research on psychedelics. Anyone...? ...working on it... please stay tuned.... Pat ______________________________Think For Yourself_______________________________ Patrick G. Salsbury 1800 Market Street #23, San Francisco, CA 94102 Voice: 415/703-7177 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thinking for yourself can be painful. It is easier to follow the lead of popular people than to think for oneself and make one's own decision; but the people one chooses to follow may not have accurate information. -Nadja Adolf ______________________________ From: sml@mfltd.co.uk (Shaun Lowry) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 09:24:57 GMT Subject: Re: VIRTUAL QUESTION #1 In message 'VIRTUAL QUESTION #1', Michael J. Gourlay writes: >Hopes and fears? I hope that the next generation of operating systems will >make the network more transparent. That is, right now, you must explicitly >tell the computer to communicate over the net, depending on what you need to >do. For example, using FTP or telnet to access different systems. >In the future, it should be the case that this happens more automatically. This is already happening, but not in OS design, but the way the Internet protocols are used. For example, you can mount file systems in New York on machines in New Delhi using NFS. Use the OS of your choice (so long as you can get an NFS package), and you have access to all the files you want, and it'll look like they're right there on your machine. >I hope that internet use will be more available to computer illiterate folks. I know many non-technical students, who still know very little about computing, but couldn't live without Internet access. >I fear that the internet will not be recognized as the tremendous resource that >it is, and that funding for it will diminish, making it cost _me_ more money to >use it. Ditto. Internet access should be provided to all and sundry at minimal cost, be it via a workplace (Internet access should definitely be considered a "perk"), and educational institution, or publically funded public access systems. Shaun. -- /s(Shaun Lowry)def/g{.7 setgray}def/c{10 0 -1 arc fill}def 300 600 100 0 360 arc stroke 300 600 50 180 0 arc stroke g 300 600 c stroke 1 2 scale 270 325 c stroke 330 325 c stroke grestore 125 450 moveto/Helvetica findfont 60 scalefont setfont gsave 0.03 .09 rmoveto g [ 1 0 2 -1 0 0 ] concat s show grestore s show showpage ______________________________ From: sml@mfltd.co.uk (Shaun Lowry) Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 09:44:05 GMT Subject: Re: Prozac (was Re: your mail) In message 'Re: your mail', ahawks (salvador dali on x) writes: >For exAmple, I was in a psych hospital for a variety of reasons from >November of 91 to March of 92...When I talked to my psychologist about >acid, he seemed all for it, but he said "I don't want you using it >now. Not now, there'll be many other chances in the future." (at >the time I was on Prozac and depressed and suicidal, so, of course he >was right about not using it then...) An interesting point about Prozac is that it can be used to block any neurotoxic effects of X (E, XTC, Ecstasy, ADAM, whatever, but *real* MDMA, not the speed/acid/coke shit that gets passed off as E). 1 dose of Prozac taken 3 hours after ingesting MDMA will completely block long term neurotoxic effects (serotonin depletion), 3-6 hours will reduce it's effect by over half. Handy if you can get hold of it :-) Shaun. -- /s(Shaun Lowry)def/g{.7 setgray}def/c{10 0 -1 arc fill}def 300 600 100 0 360 arc stroke 300 600 50 180 0 arc stroke g 300 600 c stroke 1 2 scale 270 325 c stroke 330 325 c stroke grestore 125 450 moveto/Helvetica findfont 60 scalefont setfont gsave 0.03 .09 rmoveto g [ 1 0 2 -1 0 0 ] concat s show grestore s show showpage ______________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 11:09:36 -0500 From: ah185@yfn.ysu.edu (Christopher L. Tumber) Subject: OJ Rulezzzzzzzzz! Murali sez: > OJ is > _definitely_ the way to go, IMHO...C, C, C!!! :) Yeah! Though my urine has started doin really strange things! ______________________________ From: ahawks (andy) Subject: Weekly FC Administrivia Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 10:00:06 MST ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| ________________________________________________________________________________ Vital ListStats as of January 18th 1993: Realtime: 254 Digest : FAQ-Only: 163 ::::::::: Total : 417 Current Digest is Issue #183. ________________________________________________________________________________ To post to the FutureCulture list, send your message to: future@nyx.cs.du.edu ALL Requests to FutureCulture must be sent to: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu [All request messages should garner an auto-reply msg. ] [If future-request does not *consistently* work for you ] [then please send your message to: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu] The subject of request mail must have one of the following: subscribe realtime -subscribe in realtime (reflector) format subscribe digest -subscribe in daily-digest (1 msg / day format) subscribe faq -subscribe to faq only (1 msg every few months) unsubscribe realtime unsubscribe digest unsubscribe faq help -receive a help file send info -receive this file send faq -receive a recent copy of the faq if you need one (list subscribers *automatically* receive this) send agrippa -Gibson's poem send agr1ppa -PKK's work * When unsubscribing, you must unsubscribe from the same address you subscribed from. (IMPORTANT!) * Right now, unsubscriptions usually don't work so well, thus you might have to send a message to me at ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu. (Try future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu first!!). When sending unsubscribe mail to me at ahawks, please put 'unsubscribe ' in the header where = realtime|digest|faq. * To change formats, first send a message unsubscribing from the crrent format, and then send another message to resubscribe. * Please note that when posting to the list, you should expect to receive at least 1 "Failed Mail" message because, inevitably, there is a problem with the addresses of one or more of the subscribers. Sorry. list administrator: andy (hawkeye)(dali)(freshjive) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com _______________________________________________________________________________ I do not keep archives of the digests, or the list in general. So, if you're looking for archives, I can't help you out, probably. But it wouldn't hurt to ask on the list. If you're looking for an FTP site that carries FutureCulture related stuff, try: ftp.css.itd.umich.edu /poli/future.culture.d ftp.eff.org pub/cud/papers/future ftp.u.washington.edu public/alt.cyberpunk redspread.css.itd.umich.edu If you have IRC access, look for the '#future' channel. If it's not there, start it up! Don't wait for the #future, make the #future. =) You can also find the FutureCulture FAQ on the IRC, with the #CyberPunk Bot. Join Channel #CyberPunk and type: /msg CyberBot send info. _______________________________________________________________________________ If the list is dead, you might try posting something new. Here are some suggestions: computer underground cyberculture cyberpunk (literary and cultural movements) cyberspace new edge nootropics or other drugs raves technoculture virtual reality music, movies, books, magazines that fit into the mold _____________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 18:45:37 CET From: timmy Subject: lsd -- ho hum from th etitle you can guess what im going to say lsd is dull sure i laughed a lot, and got more out of sonic youth songs than usual, but the comedown is a shit, and weelll, it just wasnt worth it after all the hype i expect something, heh?... its almost a negative experience....almost.... tim ______________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 19:02:04 CET From: timmy Subject: more lsd in regards to someones theory that lsd just fucks with our perceptions, and doesnt really do anything important... completely right...completely wrong i think huxleys metaphor for the action of hallucinogenics is quite good. he talks about a "perception valve" that has been evolved by our central nervous systems, or as part of our CNSs, to help us survive, essentially by removing vast quantities of data that is not survival oriented from our sensoriums (i like that term, it captures it all, more or less). the idea is then that hallucinogenics temporarily disable, or partially disable this valve to allow us to see much that is normally excluded from our conciousnesses, not so much expanding our conciousness, but rather expanding the input thereto, and thus indirectly allowing us to expand it with new data. he proposes that much that is a part of the ascetic life of western religion has a similar effect, whether it be living in a cave in the desert, selfflagellation, or chanting, all these things somehow convince the valve to disable, or put it to sleep, or chemically mess with it. the subject is complex, it is well worth reading his two books "Doors of Perception" and "Heaven and Hell" to get a much better view that i am able to convey. Aldous Huxley's collected works are all available from one publisher, and that is a major publisher, so you should be able to find them. Often these two books are bound together in one volume. happy reading tim ______________________________ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1993 13:26:29 +0600 (CST) From: Patrick McKee Subject: Re: your mail On Sun, 17 Jan 1993, Kent A. Watsen wrote: > Referring to the discussion on psychosis, a friend of mine > once took 14 hits of acid and tripped for the next yeaf and a half. > He was institutionalized as 'psychotic.' Go figure. What! A year and a half? Several friends of mine have done similar mega-dosage stunts while I fearfully remained at the "normal" limits and none of them ever tripped for more than a couple of days. What was it? Or should I say how big was a each hit? However, in all seriousness if your friend actually did trip for a year and half I am probably glad that he was sent to the 'sylum for his own sake. (don't flame me on this, I just hope he got some help - see below) I hope he was ok. This probably falls into the category of 1 in 100 having an adverse reaction. One of my buddies took one hit and never came back. He still lives in the pseudo-reality of his mind. This brings up an interesting point - some brains must have unstable synaptic dealies and once they are fired they don't close. I am not versed in brain chemistry so comments are welcome. As far as chronicled events, lets hear of some other mega-dose stories. My best friend once did 'cid for 30 straight (or not so straight) days without any serious implications. 'Cept that by the end of the month it was no longer having any effect at all, even after mega-dosing and the fact that he slept for 4 days and ate like a pig when he woke. Also, one final point, through all of this experimenting that I did I realized one thing - we all make our realities - tripping is merely a tool to show us the potentials of our mind and chemicals should never (NEVER) replace the natural ability in us all - merely enhance. Try to do it naturally. Have fun experiment with your mind without drugs. > Your half right here. Its true that these chemicals transcend > the blood/brain barrier by emulating the structure of naturally > ocurring chemicals. However, there is nothing spiritual in their > effect on the body. Acid, for instance, opens up the synaptic gap so > that 'sight' sensations might be receive as 'feelings'. The synaptic > gap contains a firing mechanism and a receptor for each of the five > senses: touch, sight, smell. sound, taste. When the gap is opened > wide, five squared posible scenarios can occur...only five of which > are 'normal. So these are chemical reactions? Could some people lack the necessary chemical to turn back the firing mechanism? Could you then theoretically find out what that was and then give it to people who were constantly tripping and thereby "close the gap"? > _____________________________________________________________________________ > Kent Watsen "Iph this were a virus, y0u w0uld be dead right n0w, > Kent@Virginia.edu ph0rtunately it'z n0t" -- Sn0w Crash > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ *********************************************************************** * Patrick James McKee Internet: pmckee@uafhp.uark.edu * * Computer Lab Consultant Bitnet: pmckee@uafhp * * University of Arkansas Fishnet: french silk * *********************************************************************** ______________________________ Date: 18 Jan 1993 16:31:24 -0500 From: "Hey, I'm walking here!" Subject: Phillip K. Dick Anyone know of any good critical writings on PK Dick? Especially about "VALIS"? 2 cents: I consider PK Dick to be superior to Gibson in most aspects. Thanks in advance. randy ikpr500@indyvax.iupui.edu ______________________________ Date: 18 Jan 1993 14:54:40 -0700 (MST) From: michael@nsma.arizona.edu (Michael S. Williams) Subject: Re: Phillip K. Dick > Anyone know of any good critical writings on PK Dick? > Especially about "VALIS" Nope. Just thought I'd add another $.02 to the net.... > 2 cents: I consider PK Dick to be superior to Gibson in most aspects. > Thanks in advance. > randy > ikpr500@indyvax.iupui.edu > Besides the obvious "...Electric Sheep", I found "Scanner Darkly" to be one of the best books I've read in a long time, and surprisingly so. It started out actually quite mundane, but slowly became more and more psychotic- not just the plot, but the writing style as well, ESPECIALLY the writing style. -Michael <><-><--><---><----><-----><------><======><------><-----><----><---><--><-><> Michael Williams, michael@nsma.arizona.edu University of Arizona's Division of Neural Systems, Memory & Aging 344 Life Sciences Bldg, North Tucson, AZ 85724 (602)626-2611 <><-><--><---><----><-----><------><======><------><-----><----><---><--><-><> ______________________________ Date: 18 Jan 1993 17:52:22 -0600 (CST) From: Scotto >my point is that Rigorous zooms will produce Rigorous results, all very good >for Data Type X. "sit in this chair. look at this checkerboard pattern, at this >hanging towel, at this mirror. dictate into this tape whether or not you see >phosphors, whether or not the surface of the towel undulates and how you would >characterise that undulation..." Even more so, we will have to assume that some of the researchers themselves are taking the substance and particpating in that side of the experience/ experiment. >but what if the researcher is looking for Data >Type Y; say, how do a group of like-or-differently minded individuals who share >personal stake in each other interact while zooming together, and/or what is it >like to BE one of those people?" These researchers will have to wait until the other researchers finish. In other words, until the physiological results are in, there isn't room to begin with full on sociological studies, because if isn't proven to be physiologically safe, society at large will not have access to it. >is is "worth" sacrificing Rigorousity for some >other type of experience/data? some would say so. That's easy for "some" to say, isn't it. "Some other type of experience" needs to be weighed against, very simply, the physiological data. It isn't worth sacrificing rigorous research -- doing that hinders our progress, not helps it. >some of these same people, however, might NOT necessarily espouse legalisation; >they MAY see some sort of crucial element in gathering Data Type Y in the fact >that it is illegal. I say that these people are idiots. Some crucial element to robbing people's houses and killing other people, for the people who do it, is that it isn't sociologically mandated. I do not want to be classified along with those people. It should not be illegal, and if part of the thrill for "some" is that, in fact, they could go to jail, I can suggest a myriad of other activities. >it also >ensures that the useful experimentation with Data Type Y will be tempered all >around with the common gnowledge of the volatile nature of the experience being >shared. The experience will still have a volatile nature, regardless of its legal status. LSD can be an emotional roller coaster, plain and simple. Really, rez, I think you're on a limb here. >in ANY case, a missing element, which i would hazard was >missing in most cases of post-psychedelic psychotic break, was *some sort of >safety-net,* people to find one's bearings in relation to again, instead of >sort of twirling off into free-fall somewhere. who knows, who knows... Where's the data on this, rez, or is this another assumption? How many post- psychedelic psychotics have you spoken to on this subject? I'm gonna be gone for a week, but I hope this thread continues... ______________________________ Date: 18 Jan 1993 17:53:44 -0600 (CST) From: Scotto >lsd is dull >sure i laughed a lot, and got more out of sonic youth songs >than usual, but the comedown is a shit, and weelll, it just >wasnt worth it >after all the hype i expect something, heh?... Take more next time. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, you've been a tremendous audience...:) ______________________________ From: ahawks (max legroom) Subject: Stuphs Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 18:31:20 MST Just some stuph to rattle-rattle on about.... -=) The Weekly FC Administrativa thing was messed up, somehow..The digest list got deleted somehow last nite, so I had to put a backup copy in.... So if you unsubscribed from the digest between 1AM ET and 8AM ET on Jan. 18, you're still on the list...So, we actually have 699 members (ooo, very sexual) not 417, which isn't that sexual.... |This ice cream cake floated by..floated between my legs.... | | it didn't hurt because Mr. Rogers kissed it and made it | better... | | the talking cockroach.... | | [alarm] | Oops, sorry, that wasn't me.....=) -=) Thanx to Scotto for his last post which was the net.highlite of my day... -=) If Paco reads this, could you forward that post to the Fringeware list about your [potential, but hopefully soon2b-real] catalog? Or maybe someone else could forward it here...I just thought there might be a decent amount of interest on this list... -=) I hope all of you caught the report about Wired on CNN by now, since I don't think they'll be showing it this week....It wAs also nice to see a couple people from this list and the net in general on the report....I could probably transcribe it since, of course, I tape everything like that from tv, but you'll miss the aesthetic of the mag... latez... -- ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu FutureCulture: In/f0rmation ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu ______________________________ From: Steven J. Subject: re: PK Dick books Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 22:45:57 CST ______________________________ From: the!there, Here's a short list found on the NLS for our library here at UWM: _Divine_Invasions:_A life of Philip K. Dick_ by Lawrence Sutin _Philip_K._Dick_ by Douglas A. Mackey, 1988 _Mind_in_Motion_ by Patricia S. Warrick, 1987 Good luck. Sorry I couldn't get the ISBN numbers for you. Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ From: Steven J. Subject: re: CNN reoport on WIRED! Date: Mon, 18 Jan 93 22:50:38 CST ______________________________ From: the!there, Nope, I missed it. I'm avoiding CNN like the plague because of all the bullshit regarding Iraq-Kuwait-George-SCUD et al. Anyway, yes, please do post a transcript of this piece. Also, I haven't been able to find out from anyone how many issues of WIRED! goes out per year. I have the sub info but I need to know how many issues I'm gonna get. Hey, I'm a student, ya know. AND, i still haven't been able to find this mag in Milwaukee. I just want to see one issue before forking out $$$ for something. Steve J. White ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- The opinions expressed herein are aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu sometimes those of others. aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ Subject: INTERZINE #1 - A Talk with Jagwire X Date: Tue, 19 Jan 93 1:13:03 EST From: Mitchell Porter INTERZINE #1 --- JAGWIRE X (jagwire@wixer.cactus.org) Interzine is an irregular e-zine devoted to "interviews in cyberspace". It may be copied and distributed freely. This is a chat via IRC with Jagwire X, who recently created the AUtopia mailing list (send subscription requests to autopia-request@wixer.cactus.org) to discuss the idea of an autonomous "New Edge" colony on an ocean-going vessel. He can also be reached at the CyberSpace Institute BBS @ +1.512.469.0447. /who #AUtopia Channel Nickname S User@Host (Name) #AUtopia Velax H daemon@BRADENVILLE.ANDREW.CMU.EDU (bblk09.edn.gu.edu.au) #AUtopia Jagwire X G@ anonymous@mickey.cc.utexas.edu (anonymous) Velax > Jagwire? this is mitch Jagwire X > Hey. Velax > I'm just sending you mail but I guess I can abort that Velax > Where are you physically? Jagwire X > Austin, Texas, USA Jagwire X > And you? Velax > A computer lab, Griffith University, MT Gravatt campus, Brisbane, Queensland, Australia Jagwire X > What time is it? 6.00am or so? Velax > about 10 or 11 am here, I think.. Velax > So you're in someone's apartment.. your own?.. on a terminal over a modem, linked to a unix system.. Jagwire X > My apartment. Connect to the University of Texas via. my modem. Velax > Right.. I am always curious about the nature of a person's access to the net, since I suspect that different people "see" it in very different ways Jagwire X > Are we interviewing, yet? Velax > :) good question Velax > I've got "capture" running Velax > So I guess this is "raw material" at the very least Jagwire X > Cool... well I'm ready whenever you are. Yeah. I interviewed Andy Hawks this way (more or less). Velax > The first thing I always wanted to ask you, was: what *is* a jagwire? Jagwire X > Well, it cam about this way: I was driving a rental car while tripping on acid and I had been reading a bunch of c-punk lit at the time and I saw a huge billboard for a jaguar (the car). And I had been thinking about aliases at the time, and I had been thinking about aliases at the time, and I have always had an affinity for cats. So I sort of combined, jaguar/hardwired into a single polychromatic word. Velax > aha.. Velax > I had thought maybe a "jagwire" was some sort of "phreaker's phriend", like a "plumber's helper".. some sort of wire you stick in a machine to get it to do something Jagwire X > Hey there's an idea. Maybe I'll invent something like that. Velax > okay, so that's the jagwire part.. what about the "X"? is that a Malcolm X reference? or something more generic? Jagwire X > Oh, oh yeah... also jag . The X is sort of an exclamation. Say, to make it more severe. Velax > hmm.. I thought it was meant to connote anonymity, like you had to keep an alias in order to hide yourself from the forces of law 'n order..I was just curious because both you and Blade X have that extra 'x' on the end I thought it might be a .. not a common thing, not a fashionable thing, but still a symbol understood by a certain group of people, anyhow, aliases aren't tremendously important. Jagwire X > Yeah, Blade X got it from me and Menken X (who was cosysop on my BBS for a long time). To me and Menken X it is symbol, of what? Probably cynicism and craziness. Velax > heh Velax > Your bbs - that was where you interviewed Andy Hawks? Jagwire X > Right, yeah. He graciously called it long distance. Velax > Gee, that must have been expensive Jagwire X > Probably around $15 American. Velax > So you run a bbs, and you're also creator of the whole AUtopia enterprise, which I plan to get to in a moment; do you have any other "enterprises"? Jagwire X > Um... well, I am going to try once again to publish my 'zine (SunDog). My girlfriend just bought a photocopier so... it will be easier. Other than that I would say just general wreaking havoc on cyberspace... blah blah blah. Velax > SunDog, yeah.. I had that word written down somewhere, as something to ask about.. what would distinguish your zine from the other underground / new edge zines that are already out there? would it have a net incarnation as well as a hard copy one, the way scream baby is the net form of screamin' me-me? Jagwire X > Yeah, it would be published both hardcopy and on the net. And it will be small, more like rantings from the bowels of cyberspace. Scream Baby is the net form of Scream N *me*mes which is also electronic but quarterly (I think, or at least it was) Velax > "rantings from the bowels of cyberspace".. *grin* Jagwire X > SunDog will probably be written by Menken X and I only. Velax > Is there a particular view or philosophy you would try to promote? Jagwire X > Hmm... yeah, I guess there is. I am trying to promote more substance to the form that is developing. Seems to me that the whole New Edge movement lacks any real direction. That's what the whole AUtopia thing is about, really. Velax > aha, okay Velax > Well then, what is *your* philosophy? what do you think it's all about? you said in the Andy Hawks interview you had your life turned upside down by Wilson and Leary at age 14, or something like that.. Jagwire X > Yeah, Wilson and Leary pretty much mangled my soft and mushy grey matter. Velax > heh Velax > AUtopia certainly sounds like a goal in which just about the whole 'new edge' could participate Jagwire X > As for AUtopia I certainly hope so. I haven't really done much with it since Thanksgiving, but I now am getting some free time. Velax > Where did the idea of an offshore new-edge colony come from? Hagbard Celine? "Islands in the Net"? Jagwire X > Well, actually. No. It may have lodged itself in there sometime on the past. What really brought it on was a discussion, similar to this, about the New Edge. Velax > I guess you just have to look at the world around you and ask, "where can you *go*, physically, and be free?" and all the land is taken up by the nation-states, so that leaves space, or the sea.. Jagwire X > Right, exactly. Where can I go to be free to pursue a life without being policed by immature children playing with guns. Velax > And you were saying..? that there was no direction, or no common goal? [in that discussion, that is] Jagwire X > In that discussion. Yeah, there seems to be a lack of 'hard' ideas to work toward, or even 'soft' ideas for that matter. Velax > Okay, so assuming that at some point in the future theres no kids with guns around to bother the would-be new-edge explorers.. what sort of directions are you interested in? in the last AUtopia draft I saw you had everything from nanotech to nootropics as topics of research Jagwire X > Well, yeah, I am interested in technology and how it can be used to improve the human condition. I am a big fan of Buckminster Fuller. I agree with him that all life is technology, and with the possibilities of nanotech and geneering it will be possible..to actually control the technology of life. I just want to live long enough for this to be able to happen. Wilson and Leary convinced me (at 14) that I wanted to live forever (more or less, or at least until I get bored). Velax > Have you ever read fm2030 [fm esfandiary?] are you on the extropians list? Jagwire X > I haven't read that. I am on the Extropian essay list. Velax > But not the extropian general discussion list. Very high traffic, there. Velax > esfandiary is another "transhumanist" philosopher Velax > So.. ideally, AUtopia could be a spawning ground for the technologies and ways of life in the fuller-wilson-leary sort of future, where the limits on the human condition are those of imagination rather than biology? Jagwire X > Yeah, exactly. A mecca for creation. A veritable cauldron of technological fertility. Velax > Well, I hope it happens. So far there's a mailing list and an irc channel.. Jagwire X > Yeah, me too. The mailing list is somewhat slow these days, but that will change soon, I hope. Velax > How do things look to you as far as the logistics of actually acquiring an old destroyer, or something like that, & fitting it out with all the communications tech, etc, that you're after? Jagwire X > Well, right now they look bleak. I am certain that will change, I need to spend sometime coordinating with people and see what's out there. Right now, we are still mulling over the possibilities. There should be another FAQ out any time now with more...ideas, possibilities and philosophy attached to it. Velax > Version 4.0? Jagwire X > Yeah. 4.0 Maybe even some sketches in GIF format will be available soon too. Velax > Have you contacted Pat Salsbury about his "Oceana" proposal at all? I seem to recall that going out over exi-essay. Jagwire X > Actually, I was contacted. I have yet to get back to him, but I am anticipating a mutual exchange of information. Velax > Yeah.. I only skimmed his proposal, but it was full of the countercultural technosocial ideas, like Wilson's "trade aids" also at one time on the main extropians list there was a thread about "ocean colonization" but I don't know what came of that. you could ask someone who's a subscriber to check their archives for that thread. Jagwire X > It looks more thought out than mine, I'd say. But soon I think we will be on par. Yeah, I been meaning to subscribe to it myself Velax > hmm. I think you had more details about what might be going on, on board. Velax > Did you know that R A Wilson in Cosmic Trigger II says that when he was a young anarchist he was interested in setting up anarchist colonies in international waters? maybe you should contact *him* too & see if he has any references or contacts or ideas that could be relevant. Jagwire X > Cool, I haven't read Cosmic Trigger II yet. Velax > The book's actually dedicated to Buckminster Fuller Jagwire X > Heh, cool, not surprising though. Velax > So what else specifically does the AUtopia project need now? apart from subscribers to the mailing list. Jagwire X > People, who are interested in working on it, gathering info, coordinating various aspects. Mostly organizational stuff at this point. Later it will need people (the same ones hopefully) who want to do physical work. Velax > So you'd hope to soon reach the point where there is effectively a specialization amongst the interested people? I mean, one looking at legal stuff, another at onboard comm tech, and so on.. Jagwire X > Yeah, I'd like to see different working groups that can get down to the nitty gritty of various aspects of the project. Once that happens things will get rolling. Velax > The previous AUtopia "position papers" or drafts describing the concept had a neat listing of relevant topics & so on, would that be how the working groups would come about? if someone says, 'okay, I'll address section 3a..' and so on.. Jagwire X > In a way. Yeah. In the next version I should, hopefully, have it broken up into different sections (for each working group). So, yeah. Velax > It seems to me that a really vital thing now is coming up with at least a hypothetical scenario whereby an actual geographic location is found and actual hardware is procured. otherwise it will remain just a fantasy. in this regard, I seem to recall that future culture carried some discussion of where you might buy old destroyers from [was it eastern European countries selling off their navies?], and the extropians thread on ocean colonization discussed whereabouts in international waters you might have the least chance of being harassed.. I think one of the optimum locations was off some small southeast Asian nation. Jagwire X > Yeah. Ideally, I would like to see a ship that can actually move about. If it was stationary I would think that a southeast Asian nation would be a suitable locale. Velax > hmm.. the question of mobility is related to the question of size, basically, I think. you need to know what sort of vessels are available - submarines? destroyers? crude oil carriers? etc etc. heh just had an idea. maybe you could learn from L Ron Hubbard's "sea org", he had a private flotilla of yachts or something like that. Jagwire X > Getting the hardware is going to be the most difficult part. And it will require some preparation on the part of the people involved. It will take some time to accomplish (at best). Even so if it does not come to fruition, it still is an excellent... mental exercise for the parties involved. Velax > hmm. if, say, AUtopia foundered in its present form, for one reason or another, then the thought which had gone into the social and technical aspects might prove useful to future attempts to design new edge communities, but.. nonetheless there are a lot of issues specifically relating to the idea of a new-edge colony *at sea*. and they are the most difficult ones, as far as actually achieving this goes. Jagwire X > True. Velax > but it's hard to see where else a new-edge colony could go, in the near future. I used to think about having some sort of research community in the Australian outback, but most of that land is either barren or belongs to mineral companies or aboriginal tribes. Applies to the American desert. Velax > I was musing about other possible locations.. the point I was getting around to was that at sea seems to be the best possible location for a generic new-edge colony at present. the only other place I can imagine would be in a ghetto somewhere, or maybe sibe Jagwire X > Well, in orbit would be nice, but unlikely. I certainly wouldn't mind living in space. Velax > Siberia that is.. since the Russian government wants to develop its eastern regions & wants foreign investment too, or something like that well, I presume that the new edge will get into orbit eventually, but the AUtopia timescale seems to be more like late 90's early 21st century. Jagwire X > Somehow I don't think they would want us there. Yeah, the ocean is the most likely candidate. Velax > All this relates back to what you said about, even if AUtopia doesn't come to fruition anything that gets thrashed out here can still help future enterprises like this.. Velax > The point is that if it's ever going to happen at all, anywhere, it looks as though it will have to start at sea. Jagwire X > Yeop. Velax > So even the specifically "nautical" considerations that will be discussed on AUtopia will be of future relevance, not just the generic contemplation of new-edge autonomous communities. Velax > [does that make sense?] Jagwire X > Yeah, I think so. Like even for non New Edge ocean colonization. Velax > Another thing that has occured to me. on leri-l someone talked once about setting up a bot on irc channel #leri and automating a process whereby all conversation on the channel would get sent to the mailing list. maybe you could do that with AUtopia too. [concerning non New Edge ocean col.] yes, that too. do you know how often people visit #AUtopia? Jagwire X > Nope. I have no idea. I am often not around as I am still await the full INTERnet connection at my base of operations. Velax > Is that wixer.cactus.org? Jagwire X > Yeah. That's the place. Home of AUtopia, Scream Baby and FringeWare. Velax > Yeah, I'm very curious about it. does you or Blade X or Paco work for wixer or cactus or whatever organization this is? Jagwire X > Blade X, Pacoid and I are the big three freaks there. No none of us do. It's run by George Wenzel and frankly I don't know much about it. 'Better, Faster and Cheaper' is their motto (I think), but don't quote me on that. Velax > heh, ok Velax > I remember on fut-cult a while back there was a discussion about which city is more cyberpunkish or new-edgey, and I remember someone saying that Austin was one of the best places to be, to be connected to the techno-underground Jagwire X > Yeah, it definitely is. The amount of New Edge per capita has got to be higher than anywhere else. Plus there's a whole lot of high-tech industry here. The University of Texas, more BBS's than you can shake a stick at. Members of the Legion of Doom. A local chapter of EFF. Plenty of Raves (if your into that). Tons of live music. etc. etc. etc. Velax > So you have high-tech industry [computers? genetics? aerospace?] connected to utexas, plus drugs, raves, mind machines, hackers.. Jagwire X > Plus it's has some of the strictest environmental initiatives in the US, clean air, and it's a sprawl even (size wise if not population). High-tech industry includes all that you mentioned. Velax > how organized is the techno-undeground, do you think? I guess this relates to what you were saying before, about the lack of overarching visions. it seems to me that the most organized people would be groups like LOD. at the level of the new edge as a whole, there's no organization, there's only zines and other info outlets like the mailing lists which provide an overview of what exists,. but don't actually coordinate anything. Jagwire X > How organized. Here it seems to be more organized than most places. EFF-Austin is a contributor to that. Velax > Isn't the EFF basically a civil rights watchdog? officially? I mean, I imagine that at CyberDawg get-togethers, or whatever they're called, people might talk about all sorts of other things, but I'm sure the EFF charter [eg] doesn't say 'we're here to put the nootropics researchers, in touch with the computer underground, in touch with..' Jagwire X > Yeah, that's right. The CyberDawgs present an opportunity for the people to meet face2face. What they do after that is up to them. Velax > hmm. on the topic of the eff, while you were gone I started checking my email and there's a whole heap of messages with subject lines like 'the EFF is over' and 'shakeup at the eff'. do you know what this is about. Jagwire X > Not really. There was a post about EFF National's changes. The rest was all just opinions and hype. Apparently some people are not pleased with what they are doing. Me I don't have much of an opinion about it. Velax > Well, just viewing one long message, which I think is the post about the national changes, it says something about not forming local chapters. where would that leave EFF-Austin, any idea? Jagwire X > Well, EFF-Austin is an incorporated entity unto itself. It is not actually a subdivision of EFF-National. Velax > okay, so this would really appear to be just an organizational change, not a change of goals or anything. however, to relate this back to what I was saying before, the EFF is an organization which concentrates on the future of the net, or cyberspace, & in particular on civil liberties in cyberspace. That's only part of the new edge. for example, nanotech, nootropics & other forms of R&D on the one hand, & raves, mudding & other on-line _culture_ on the other, are part of it too. what I was trying to get at is that there is nothing concerned with the whole new edge, as far as I can see, apart from zines like Mondo 2000 etc. Jagwire X > Yes. That's right. As far as I know it does not promote any of the other aspects of the New Edge. Yeah, in the sense that any magazine is a discussion of a subject. I would say that M2k and bOING-bOING do quite a good job of blending various aspects together. Velax > And they are more reporting on the scene rather than trying to involve it all in some common enterprise, as AUtopia would. So there would seem to be a need for 2 things, that I can think of: i] a group with an "EFF-like" approach to the whole issue of technoculture, and ii] trying to create the space - a "TAZ" - where new edge activities can be pursued. this is where AUtopia fits in, I guess. Jagwire X > You got it. Velax > I've never seen bOING bOING here in oz, unfortunately Jagwire X > I am probably going to have to go for good RSN. Velax > Yeah, I guess it might be about time. it must be about midnight there by now? Jagwire X > No, 8:30 pm. I just have some stuff I have to do b4 it get's late. I've enjoyed it and thanks for the opportunity! Velax > Yes, its bee fun & quite interesting. Maybe someday I'll be able to interview you at jagwire@autopia.com Jagwire X > Heh. Hopefully! Feel free to e-mail me if you have any further questions. BCNUL8R Velax > Sure. well, I'll probably see you on future culture, AUtopia or leri, anyhow. Ok, see you.. -----end of Interzine #1--------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________|