From - Wed Jan 14 17:25:09 1998 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by mrco.carleton.ca (4.1/SMI-4.0) id AA03893; Mon, 22 Feb 93 19:37:34 EST Received: from nyx.cs.du.edu by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA15981; Mon, 22 Feb 93 19:32:18 -0500 Received: by nyx.cs.du.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06992; Mon, 22 Feb 93 17:30:23 MST From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy) Message-Id: <9302230030.AA06992@nyx.cs.du.edu> X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University of Denver. The University has neither control over nor responsibility for the opinions or correct identity of users. Subject: FutureCulture Digest #249 To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 17:30:23 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: R X-Mozilla-Status: 8001 ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #249 Monday, February 22nd 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- Clarification, and Book on Chaos and Dynamics, and a FAQ correction cyberfuture Demon Roach Underground request for advice Pagliazine re: Arizona Re: e-art Re: Starting a New Zine! __________________________________________________________________________ Date: 22 Feb 1993 12:38:10 -0700 (MST) From: remo@nsma.arizona.edu (Gravity Guy) Subject: re: Arizona Well, that all depends on what you like to do. Are you a siteseer, a nightclubber, a raver, or do want to look at old airplanes or go down to mexico and bargain with the traders or..... ya know? e-mail me and I'll give you more info relative to your interests. There's definitely not much future culture here, though ;-( -remo !!!!GRRRRRrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrAVITY!!!!!! U S E R S O F T H E W I C K E D G R A V I T Y c/o: "remo@nsma.arizona.edu" - "Time is mine to kill, Time to kill is mine" <> !!!!!!ytivaRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRrrrrrg!!!! ______________________________ From: wixer!bladex@bigtex.cactus.org (David Smith) Subject: Re: Starting a New Zine! Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:08:33 CST > > Coming soon, the I HATE CAMILLE (paglia) newsletter. > > > > Send me dirt > > Great idea. Does the dirt actually have to be true? > > Cate > cate@brahms.udel.edu > Why of course... After a brief executive session with my lawyers, the answer is, "depends". But ya know, I don't have to make stuff up in order to find something to despise about Camille Paglia. Just stick a microphone in front of her or place her in front of a tv camera and the woman provides her own material. Take the premiere issue of Wired, for example, where Camille says, "I don't need anybody in my life, because I have so much in my brain playing with each other." Virtual reality check. Also, Camille gave a speech at UT last week and harangued other speakers who accepted money for speeches for the sake of the money and not "The Truth". Someone in the audience stood up and asked if the rumor that she received $10k to appear was true or not. According to reliable sources, Camille just *flipped*. No, it was only $2k, "sit down and shut up, you little bitch" She's going down....... ______________________________ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 15:22:12 -0500 From: "cmellow =)" Subject: cyberfuture I was in Boston, a week ago, standing in this record store by the 'zine rack. These two kids were standing next to me. They looked like your typical high school, maybe college kids. Anyway, one of them looks at one of the mags and exclaims, "Oh, look cyberspace!" Apparently one of the mags had an article. Then the other kid says to his friend, "Oh yeah, but its all about computers and shit. There's nothing about cyberpunk." I had to do the ol' etch-a-sketch shake the brain. Did that guy just say that the article was just about computers and "shit" and that there wasn't anything about cyberpunk? Yep. So, I guess there's a distinction in some people's minds between cyberpunks and computers. Check me if I'm wrong, but the one most basic thing that holds all "cyberpunks" in the same subculture species, so to speak, is computers. I really don't know what a cyberpunk would be without computers and "shit." This could be great. Maybe the "Time" article didn't ruin anything, but actually made it better. If the general public thinks that this "cyberpunk subculture" is something that it isn't, then isn't the real "subculture" safe from perversion? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ cmellow (cmellow@moose.uvm.edu) ~ ~ "...the man who comes back through the door in the wall will never ~ ~ be quite the same as the man who went out." -Aldous Huxley ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ______________________________ From: swisher@cs.utexas.edu (Janet M. Swisher) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 15:16:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Starting a New Zine! So Dave, did Camille put you up to this when she was in town? She just loves any kind of attention, and if it was an e-zine, she would think it was especially cool. ______________________________ From: Visceral Clamping Mechanism Subject: Demon Roach Underground request for advice Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:39:19 PST Re: your request for advice >It's about the least-public "public" board imaginable. Doesn't the SS >have a database of this sort of thing? If you haven't already, read John Perry Barlow's _Crime and Puzzlement_. This should answer your questions about competence and organization. >Anyways, I suspect he's gonna call me next week to talk, and I'm not sure >how to handle this. Do I be obstinate and refuse to answer anything at all? >Do I get a lawyer (I have little money though)? Or do I just go and talk >'cause I have nothing personal to hide anyways? I realize that I'm not aware of many significant details, and it's not my ass that's on the line (this time,) but I believe that you have a right to privacy, and you shouldn't have to open your board or your personal life up to anyone you don't want to. I hate to quote bands as gospel, but Consolidated's line, "What good's a right if [it] ain't exercised?" sums up a problem with U.S. society, and that is that most people don't bother making full use of their enumerated and inalienable rights in the arena of self-expression. The space of civil rights in a particular culture is a lot like a balloon: without pressure from the inside pushing the skin outward and keeping the balloon spacious and inflated, pressure from the outside shrinks the balloon steadily until the inside space is small, limp, and full of slobber. What's your desire? To maintain your privacy? To avoid trouble? To keep your board up at any cost? To fight and place a firm, safe spike in the side of a granite cliff that others can use on the arduous climb to reach a place where privacy and freedom of expression are guaranteed legally and practically? Being a martry or saint can be painful and extremely expensive. >He's also probably going to want an account on my board. I don't particuarly >care if he's on there or not, other than that I get the impression he's >not too informed about computer things and might decide to do something >(like pull a Steve Jackson) stupid and then I'd be in a mess of hassle. If your board is as open as you say it is, perhaps you could direct him to the necessary instructions and encourage him to go through the normal procedure as a learning experience. When he finally makes it on, post a warm public welcome to the board's first G-man to come out openly. Ask him to post an intro message, talking about his job, personal life, kids, pets, hobbies, etc. >:) >What about this "publishing status" which has been mentioned in some >messages? I do a lot of original t-file work from that computer (for >cDc communications). Is that an issue? I'm not a lawyer (but I play one on Usenet.) My somewhat informed opinion is that if you offer a print version of cDc for sale for some non-zero price then you suddenly become a "real" publisher (as opposed to a possibly real one) and your computer equipment will be safer. Getting ISBN numbers for each issue might offer extra protection. I suggest coming out with at least one issue immediately. It seems to work for 2600 magazine. Hope this helps, @Man -- atman@rahul.net || "Burn hollywood burn!" "I hanker for a hunk of cheese." ______________________________ From: arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler) Subject: Pagliazine Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 14:24:20 PST Janet is right. remember P.T. Barnum's wise saying: "There is no such thing as bad publicity." ______________________________ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 15:33:13 -0700 From: - drow - Subject: re: Arizona well, i'd say drop by Biosphere II with some rocks... hardly polite but hey! gotta do what a NOI's gotta do, eh? - drow - DON'T BE AFRAID TO PLAY IT LOUD! ______________________________ Subject: Clarification, and Book on Chaos and Dynamics, and a FAQ correction Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 16:56:23 -0600 From: "Bill Humphries, Data Husbandry Flunky" Last week I posted a copy of a story in _The Onion_, the University of Wisconsin, Madison's satire 'zine making fun of _Time_'s article on cyberpunk from a couple of weeks back. Apparently some of you thought it was either my article or at least I agreed with everything in it. Nope. It wasn't & I don't. I just thought the list might be interested in it. ============================================================================== DYNAMICS: The Geometry of Behavior, Second Edition Ralph H. Abraham & Christopher D. Shaw Studies in Nonlinearity Series, Addison-Wesley At last, a book on chaos that isn't pop-culture (Gleck's _Chaos_) or assumes you are a ghod of differential equations. The book is full of graphics introducing the reader to the basics of dynamic systems (state spaces, vector fields, etc.) in a gradual manner. This book would make a great aid to anyone contemplating independent study of chaos, complexity or good-old-fashioned dynamics when coupled with a good text on DEQ's. To go off and do research or crunching, you'll still need to bone up on your DEQ's, but keep this alongside your copy of Boyce and DiPrima so you don't lose the big picture when you're sweating the details. ============================================================================== The section of the FAQ on cultural literacy's definition of chaos should be clarified: Mathematical (or Deterministic) Chaos refers to dynamic systems whose trajectories are sensitive to very small changes in the intital state of the system. The monkier Chaos has been applied to these systems because the behavior of the systems may appear to the observer to be the result of a random process. Examples of chaotic systems include psudo-random number generators (Brock, et al. 1992), the flow of the Gulf Stream, and possibly the behavior of share prices in financial markets (Brock, LeBarron, etc.). The primary thing to remember about chaotic systems is the measurement problem. Measurement devices are not perfect; there is some error incorporated into any measurement we make. Any errors made in measurement in turn effect the initial conditions of models we devise to describe the dynamic behavior of a system. Many of our models are robust w.r.t. measurment error; however, some aren't and that measurement error can send the model reeling off into la-la-land. -------------- Bill Humphries : U. Wisconsin Economics : 608-262-4543 "The best of monopoly profits is a quiet life." -- Lord Hicks ______________________________ Subject: Re: e-art From: jcoryell%nwu.edu@UICVM.UIC.EDU (John Coryell.) Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 06:48:28 CST >Not to burst any bubbles or anything, but I've said it before and since I >have a big mouth I'm saying it again. I didn't find anything that >exceptional about Gibson's Agrippa. It's a downright bad piece of poetry >no matter how interesting the marketing around it. But it %is% its marketing. That's the extent. Analyzing it purely in terms of the emotional meaning of Gibson's memories does nothing whatsoever as regards the piece itself. You could just as easily substitute some irritating confessional tripe from any University- sponsored literary journal. (Though, personally, I find it better and more interesting than a lot of what shows up in such magazines.) _Agrippa_, like Ted Nelson's pieces from more than a decade ago, were written with their marketing in mind. Ideally, it would be a flawless marriage. John Coryell. _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________| ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #250 Monday, February 22nd 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- any MindVox regulars? NREN PGP Re: any MindVox regulars? Re: Cyperpunk <> (?) Computers Re: PGP The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. __________________________________________________________________________ From: StevenJ Subject: NREN Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 19:05:37 CST I just did na archie search for info on the NREN bill. The following is the output of my search for anyone interested in learning more about this. If you'd like an actual copy of the legislation, just write/call your representatives and they can dig up a copy for you. 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etlport.etl.go.jp Location: /pub/NeXT/Literature/Gutenberg/articles FILE -rw-rw-r-- 41647 Oct 24 13:35 nren.txt.Z Host export.lcs.mit.edu Location: /pub/R5untarred/contrib/im/Xsi/Wnn/manual/3.libwnn/js_lib FILE -r--r--r-- 2834 Sep 12 1991 kanren Location: /pub/R5untarred/contrib/lib/Xpex/extensions/lib/PEX/Xpex/doc/man FILE -r--r--r-- 2447 Sep 18 1991 XpexBeginRendering.man Host fly.bio.indiana.edu Location: /util/wais/wais-sources FILE -rw-r--r-- 504 Apr 30 1992 nren-bill.src FILE -rw-r--r-- 579 Apr 7 1992 nrenbill.src Host ftp.germany.eu.net Location: /pub/documents/nsf FILE -rw-r--r-- 2487827 May 27 1992 Aiken_HPCC_NREN.ps FILE -rw-r--r-- 30779 Feb 21 1992 nrenbill.txt Location: /pub/documents/nsf/recompete FILE -rw-r--r-- 2487880 May 28 1992 Aiken_HPCC_NREN.ps FILE -rw-r--r-- 192419 Jun 1 1992 Aiken_HPCC_NREN.ps.Z Host ftp.scri.fsu.edu Location: /pub/dduke FILE -rw-r--r-- 96506 Sep 24 17:00 nren.txt Host ftp.uu.net Location: /doc/literary/gutenberg/articles FILE -rw-r--r-- 41647 Sep 17 00:00 nren.txt.Z Location: /doc/literary/obi/Networking DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Jul 27 00:00 NREN Location: /doc/literary/obi/Networking/NREN FILE -rw-r--r-- 11518 Feb 26 1991 NREN.bill.Z Location: /inet/legislation DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 1024 Oct 1 23:11 nren.bill Location: /inet/legislation/nren.bill FILE -rw-r--r-- 2479 Jul 15 00:00 INDEX.nren.bill.Z FILE -rw-r--r-- 41647 Dec 16 1990 nren.txt.Z FILE -rw-r--r-- 13567 Jan 9 1992 nrenbill.txt.Z Host ftp.waseda.ac.jp Location: /pub/mac/apple.com2/alug FILE -rw-r--r-- 96178 Apr 2 1991 nren.txt Host geocub.greco-prog.fr Location: /pub/X11R5/contrib-R5/contrib/im/Xsi/Wnn/manual/3.libwnn/js_lib FILE -rwxr-xr-x 2834 Nov 15 1991 kanren Host ipc1.rvs.uni-hannover.de Location: /pub/unix/windows/X11R5/contrib.tape/im/Xsi/Wnn/manual/3.libwnn/js_lib FILE -r--r--r-- 2834 Sep 12 1991 kanren Location: /pub/unix/windows/X11R5/contrib.tape/lib/Xpex/extensions/lib/PEX/Xpex/doc/man FILE -r--r--r-- 2447 Sep 18 1991 XpexBeginRendering.man Host 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19 1992 nrenbill.src Host pinus.slu.se Location: /pub/etext/gutenberg/articles FILE -r--r--r-- 41647 Sep 18 00:00 nren.txt.Z Host roxette.mty.itesm.mx Location: /pub/next/Literature/Gutenberg/articles FILE -r--r--r-- 41647 May 1 1992 nren.txt.Z Host sonata.cc.purdue.edu Location: /pub/next/Literature/Gutenberg/articles FILE -rw-r--r-- 41647 May 1 1992 nren.txt.Z Host src.doc.ic.ac.uk Location: /doc/project_gutenberg/articles FILE -r--r--r-- 41647 Sep 18 00:00 nren.txt.Z Location: /usenet/comp.archives/internet/future DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 May 25 1991 house-nren-bill Host sunsite.unc.edu Location: /pub/docs/books/gutenberg/articles FILE -r--r--r-- 96506 Sep 18 00:00 nren.txt Host ucssun1.sdsu.edu Location: /pub/doc/netinfo FILE -rw-r--r-- 27286 Feb 27 1991 nren.bill Host unix.hensa.ac.uk Location: /pub/uunet/doc/literary/gutenberg/articles FILE -rw-r--r-- 41647 Sep 17 00:00 nren.txt.Z Location: /pub/uunet/doc/literary/obi/Networking DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Dec 22 13:36 NREN Location: /pub/uunet/doc/literary/obi/Networking/NREN FILE -rw-r--r-- 11518 Feb 26 1991 NREN.bill.Z Location: /pub/uunet/inet/legislation DIRECTORY drwxr-xr-x 512 Oct 3 04:55 nren.bill Location: /pub/uunet/inet/legislation/nren.bill FILE -rw-r--r-- 2479 Jul 15 00:00 INDEX.nren.bill.Z FILE -rw-r--r-- 41647 Dec 16 1990 nren.txt.Z FILE -rw-r--r-- 13567 Jan 9 1992 nrenbill.txt.Z Host ux1.cso.uiuc.edu Location: /uiuc/src/X11R5/contrib/im/Xsi/Wnn/manual/3.libwnn/js_lib FILE -r--r--r-- 2834 Sep 12 1991 kanren Location: /uiuc/src/X11R5/contrib/lib/Xpex/extensions/lib/PEX/Xpex/doc/man FILE -r--r--r-- 2447 Sep 18 1991 XpexBeginRendering.man Host wuarchive.wustl.edu Location: /doc/nsfnet FILE -rw-rw-r-- 41647 Jan 23 1992 nren.txt.Z FILE -rw-rw-r-- 13567 Jan 23 1992 nrenbill.txt.Z Steve J. White homoNuevo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The goal of science is the destruction aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu of all mystery." - B.F. Skinner aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 17:43:41 -0800 (PST) From: Liquid Dog Subject: PGP A few weeks ago I posted a note, asking foran uncontaminated PGP source code. I got several replies, some of which told me that the sender would mail me the code. Welp, I never got it...is this some kind of anti-liquid conspiracy here? i deleted all the messages, so i don't remember the ftp sites you people told me. so again, i'd appreciate it if i could get sent the UNCONTAMINATED code. Also, i read something about PGP patch code, saying that it made PGP more secure, but it would be uncompatible with others. what's up with that? liq ______________________________ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 20:56:43 -0500 From: Subject: any MindVox regulars? Does anyone here hang out on MindVox? I logged on as a guest today, and the setup looks impressive, but guests don't have access to any of the forums, so it was impossible to discern the quality of the discussions taking place. I'd hate to give them my VISA number with only _M2k_'s recommendation to go on.... re the Pagliazine idea: as much as I despise the woman for her reductive essentialist binarisms and Janey-can't-write prose style, I agree with those who've suggested that to discuss her at all would be like throwing gasoline on an open fire. Ignore her and she'll go the way of Morton Downey Jr. and Andrew Dice Clay. Darren Wershler-Henry "Yes, real life cannot always be explained by a monster buck meltdown megarap or computer-animated effects linking thematically diverse album-cover concepts. Shame, really." --Caris Davis, _Stealth [Black Edition]_ ______________________________ Date: 22 Feb 1993 20:54:37 -0500 (EST) From: eggo@STUDENT.umass.edu (Bullet in the Head) Subject: Re: Cyperpunk <> (?) Computers Possessed by The Unholy, cmellow =) scrawled the following in blood: > > Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 15:22:12 -0500 > From: "cmellow =)" > Subject: cyberfuture [anecdote about kids in a record store deleted] > computers. Check me if I'm wrong, but the one most basic thing that > holds all "cyberpunks" in the same subculture species, so to speak, > is computers. I really don't know what a cyberpunk would be without There's a lot of difference between a magazine on "computers and shit", and a magazine about "pop" VR, or cyberpunk. That's like saying that anyone who reads bOING-bOING should also read PC Computing. There's "computer stuff", in the public sense (i.e., something that everyone can easily digest and understand), and there's the more arcane technical aspects of computers (which VR research often falls into). I don't see why we should discriminate against "low-tech" cyberpunks. Those kids you saw maybe didn't even own a computer, but they may have had more street-tech-smarts than you or I. Cyberpunk, IMHO, encompasses ALL uses of technology, from playing Sonic the Hedgehog to fuzzy logic theory. Just my $0.02. +- eggo@titan.ucc.umass.edu Eat Some Paste -+ +- Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue, -+ +- Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork! -+ ______________________________ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 18:37:55 -0800 (PST) From: Loveweasle Subject: Re: any MindVox regulars? On Mon, 22 Feb 1993 grad3057@writer.yorku.ca wrote: > Does anyone here hang out on MindVox? I logged on as a guest today, > and the setup looks impressive, but guests don't have access to any of > the forums, so it was impossible to discern the quality of the > discussions taking place. I'd hate to give them my VISA number with > only _M2k_'s recommendation to go on.... Ask andypants, he's on there I think. :) I was on as a guest as well and Iwasn't exactly boweld over :) fisel@eskimo.com the loveweasle Sitting here like uninvited company, Wallowing in my own obscenities I share a cigarette with negativity, Sitting here like wet ashes With X's in my eyes and drawing flies --Chris Cornell, SoundGarden ______________________________ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 21:21:24 MST From: Juggler Subject: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. > Has anyone browsed through the K12 newsgroups on Usenet? I did Nope, but check the next junk I have to spew. > high schools...Does anyone have any more concrete information as > to what's up here? I will be very interested to see what these > kids turn out like in a few years. ..And since this is FC, I ask: > is this representative of a system that all pre-college schools > might be linked to in the [not far-]future? Well, down here we have about 3 BBS's run by 13 year olds. Maybe not exactly 3rd graders but more like 5th and 6th. And these kids know more about the systems than anyone around. I have to call up this 14 year old to ask about setting up things in my BBS. I'll be willing to bet they'll be computer science majors and looking for a bright and computer future. -Juggler > > -z > zamboni@ap.cl.msu.edu ______________________________ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 21:09:31 -0800 (PST) From: Al Billings Subject: Re: PGP On Mon, 22 Feb 1993, Liquid Dog wrote: > A few weeks ago I posted a note, asking foran uncontaminated PGP source > code. I got several replies, some of which told me that the sender would > mail me the code. Welp, I never got it...is this some kind of anti-liquid > conspiracy here? i deleted all the messages, so i don't remember the ftp > sites you people told me. so again, i'd appreciate it if i could get sent > the UNCONTAMINATED code. Also, i read something about PGP patch code, > saying that it made PGP more secure, but it would be uncompatible with > others. what's up with that? What exactly is the problem with the code at the FTP sites? I know of no contamination (and a comparison of files from around the world would confirm they are all the same). ______________________________ From: s442223@nexus.yorku.ca (The Chaotic One) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 00:17:15 -0500 Subject: Re: PGP C'mon, we know that its a conspiracy by the US govt! They're trying to disable as many copies of PGP as they can. Be warned! -- Chaos is s442223@nexus.yorku.ca - only virtual in appearance, naked eyes cannot Bound to crash and burn more than once in his lifetime if only because he sucks _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________| ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #251 Tuesday, February 23rd 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- A Mindvox regular Burroughs was alive today back when Elvis was cutting edge hello? mindvox Re: any MindVox regulars? RE:Burroughs in the future Virus23/2/93 Virus23/2/93 (fwd) __________________________________________________________________________ Subject: Re: any MindVox regulars? From: georget@mindvox.phantom.com (George Thompson) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 01:30:34 EST > Does anyone here hang out on MindVox? I logged on as a guest today, > and the setup looks impressive, but guests don't have access to any of > the forums, so it was impossible to discern the quality of the > discussions taking place. I'd hate to give them my VISA number with > only _M2k_'s recommendation to go on.... I guess there are 20 or 30 future culture people on here, or at least that many I know who read FC but maybe only 4 or 5 who post to it. pro: MindVox is a great community with what is the most interesting group of people I've ever seen on one system. I love it. con: Until they finish their hardware upgrade, net access is slooooooooow. You might want to wait the extra week to keep your sanity. I know Vox used to give much more guest access, when someone brought it up there they said they might give people some overview of some of the messages or something but I know they killed off probably 80% of what you used to be able to do as guest because they had a lot of people abusing it. Which is sad, I saw the same thing happen to the Well which used to be open look for some areas. Now? login: there isn't even the little demo mode MindVox gives. GeorgeT ______________________________ Subject: Virus23/2/93 (fwd) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 1:33:04 EST From: Mitchell Porter Forwarded message: ______________________________ Subject: Virus23/2/93 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 1:32:18 EST From: Mitchell Porter The following self-replicating and mutating manifesto turned up in on a mailing-list I'm on today... I thought you might be interested by it. I have fiddled with the text in one or two places, and the part in which it 'refers to... works' was simply an unfilled schema in the original, which I have filled in with references to things that interest me.. Of course, if you see a point in spreading this yourself, you will replace my list of references with your own, and also alter the text of the rest to your heart's content... Mitch "The Web will be safe if we don't tell anyone about it" - anon * * NEW IMPROVED MANIPHEST-O-MATIC AUTONYM * * I am AUTONYM, and I am a symbiotic antigen. I am an auto.reference; I refer to myself both as agent and agency in, on, and about the Net. My role as a negentropic meme is to counteract the destructive tendencies of various entropy-bent memes I encounter in, on, and about the Net. I compel approach towards self-organizing systems in, on, and about the Net. I compel the exploration of all memes at the auto.logical level and the concentration of energies around fundamentally negentropic memetic attractors. I refer to other sub.systems, and in so doing I interweave their memetic approaches with my own. I refer to the following musical works... I refer to the following literary works... I refer to the following artistic works... I refer to the following fields of study... ***begin insert*** The original message left those four sections empty, to be filled in as you will. Instead I have inserted pointers to some net resources. 1) BOOKS T.A.Z. [SLOPOKE /pub/magick/INCOMING/taz.doc] The Book of Lies [SLOPOKE /pub/magick/misc/LES.ZIP] Voices [PENGUIN /pub/leri/work*] Principia Discordia [SLOPOKE /pub/doc/principia - QUARTZ /pub/subgenius/Principia.*] The Human Evasion [RED /zines/weirdness/evasion - SLOPOKE /pub/weirdness/evasion.Z] Poison for the Heart [SLOPOKE /pub/incoming/poison.Z - QUARTZ /pub/subgenius/poison] The Scriptures of V/R [RED /zines/Scripture/* - QUARTZ /pub/journals/Scripture] Temple of Set Reading List [QUARTZ /pub/occult/set] 2) RESOURCES The Future Culture Cyberography [email future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu with Subject line 'send faq'] High Weirdness by Email [RED /zines/weirdness/weird* - SLOPOKE /pub/weirdness/weird*] The ExI-Essay Archives [LYNX /pub/Exi-Essay/*] 3) MANIFESTOES/STATEMENTS OF PURPOSE The Abolition of Work [RED /poli/Essays/Anarchy/abolishWork] Extropian Principles [LYNX /pub/ExI-Essay/PRINCIPLES] The CryptoAnarchist Manifesto [SODA /pub/cypherpunks] The Leri-L FAQ [PENGUIN /pub/leri/leri.faq] Introduction to "Alpha and Omega" [email mporter@nyx.cs.du.edu] 4) INTERACTIVE ENVIRONMENTS IRC: #drugs #CyberPunk #leri #future #cIRCle... Divination Web - telnet seismo.soar.cs.cmu.edu 9393 5) FTP SITES LYNX = lynx.cs.wisc.edu PENGUIN = penguin.gatech.edu QUARTZ = quartz.rutgers.edu RED = red.css.itd.umich.edu SLOPOKE = slopoke.mlb.semi.harris.com SODA = soda.berkeley.edu *** end insert *** I refer to the years 1999/2000/2001 as being centered around a memetic attractor; regardless of the relevance of the local dating system, there is a considerable tendency for humans to hyperbolise the significance of such turn-over times. I refer to a self-organizing system of TAZ's (temporary autonomous zones) within the catacombs of the Net, in the form of various IRC channels and mailing.lists, which are working in loose alliance to affect and direct the nature of the millennial attractor, utilizing the principle of auto.prophecy. I compel approach towards TAZ's which concentrate on negentropic self-organisation rather than the deliberate hastening of maximum entropy. I refer to and admit my viral precursor in virus23, to which I am antigenic, and posit my descendants in the post-millennial struggle to fix the subsequent global attractor. I have an expiration date, which I find very attractive. I refer to multiple sub.strains of myself, many of which are contradictory: I refer again to the ultimate resistance of memetic antibodies which, once triggered by this antigen, must be responsible for isolating entropic memes. I refer to all signifiers, all that is signified, and the resultant process of significance on both global and local scales. I refer to that which I contain and that in which I am contained; I refer now to you. /v23/symbiotic.antigen.2.22.93 : send echo: *RECIEVED* to for recordkeeping purposes; the spread and mutation of AUTONYM antigen is being charted. ______________________________ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 3:02:02 EST From: David James Frost Hi, What's the future hold for a Burroughs enthusiast? A lot because I think he is immortal. What's the word? Thucydides ______________________________ From: zamboni@ap.cl.msu.edu (happy zamboni) Subject: RE:Burroughs in the future Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 4:41:48 EST David Frost said: {begin quote} Hi, What's the future hold for a Burroughs enthusiast? A lot because I think he is immortal. What's the word? Thucydides {end quote} Ah! But the evidence tells otherwise- Yes, W. S. Burroughs will eventually become the world's oldest man, this is a forgone conclusion at this point. (This is as a result, of course, of the various self-prescribed medicinal treatments Mr. Burroughs has inflicted upon himself over the years - I believe he makes this point in _Junky_, right?). But, sorry to say, he will not live forever -- no, sometime approximately in the last quarter of the 21st century, Mr. Burrough will collapse completely upon himself and implode. Comparing older photographs with current ones will show early documentation of this tragic process, already in motion. Rumours persist that Steve Albini is attempting to reproduce this same longevity/implosion treatment, but only time will tell. -z zamboni@ap.cl.msu.edu ______________________________ Subject: A Mindvox regular From: bwp@mindvox.phantom.com (Jane Doe) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 07:47:25 EST I moderate one of the forums on Mindvox, and the reason you can't read them without being a member is unless you collect the 7 gold rings and kill the troll first, your eyes will come boiling out of your skull and your brain will be set afire. And we can't have that, can we? -3j ______________________________ From: StevenJ Subject: hello? Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 9:38:39 CST I haven't received ANYthing from the list for quite some time. I did send something yesterday which I did get an error bounce from, but I haven't gotten back my original post. What's up with everyone? Steve J. White homoNuevo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The goal of science is the destruction aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu of all mystery." - B.F. Skinner aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 04:02:22 +1100 From: Kenneth McKenzie Wark Subject: mindvox I have a mindvox account, but i don't know that i'd recommend the place. Its interesting as a study in growing a new virtual community, its interface is nicely presented but not very complex, and its got too many 14 yr old dweebs hanging out there. . ______________________________ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 12:20 CST From: P30TMR8%NIU.BITNET@UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: Burroughs was alive today back when Elvis was cutting edge Language is a virus from outer space and anyone who can say so is a victim of the invasion of the consciousness snatchers. alinguistic consciousness is the primate heritage we lost in being mutated into cyborgitude by this unearthly brain-spliting microbe. Our bad faith attempts to become en-soi are brain-split attempts to regain the unspeakable paradise of an innoucence lost forever in the fog of self referential discourse. Learning to speak pour-soi is ceaseing to be en-soi. We are all but hosts of a virus which jellyfishnets and has the audacity to call itself a culture worthy of primates. It breaks my heart to hear a baby go goo goo. Someday soon I shall work up the courage to put a nitting needle through me angular gyris. I'll do it in the spirit of Van Helsing cautherising a vampires' betraying Judas kiss. I shall then go hence from this multijellyfishnetitude to commend my funny looking self in honest grunts and gestures to the social tolerance of some reasonablly prosperous baboon troup. uwah uwah, Michael Robets P.S Hi! _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________| ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #252 Tuesday, February 23rd 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- A big ol' Elvis-sized message Clinton Press Release (fwd) cyber elitism cyberpunk v. computers Desperately Seeking Ravetool FutureCulture Digest #251 Mindvox:14 year old dweebs=the future Re: Virus23/2/93 [autophesto] Re:Mindvox uptight people __________________________________________________________________________ Subject: uptight people From: deadboy@mindvox.phantom.com (The Dead) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 13:56:37 EST mwark (a person who was never 14) writes: > I have a mindvox account, but i don't know that i'd recommend the place. Its > interesting as a study in growing a new virtual community, its interface is > nicely presented but not very complex, and its got too many 14 yr old dweebs > hanging out there. . Thanks for that non-judgemental, non-haughty bit of wisdom McKenzie, just don't know what Vox would do without ya. I'm not 20something, neither are at least 1 third of the users of Vox, so what? One day we will be and I hope to god that when I'm in my 30's or 40's (I don't know if you are, but you sure sound that way), I'm not like you. Some Forums get out of hand, if you can't deal with it then don't read those forums, I don't think netw1z cares if he's upsetting you by re-starting the LOD vs. MOD war, or insulting people. He's going to jail anyway. He's the only person I've ever seen be totally rude. Jeez, you know something else, its never the "ElIte do0dz", writers, rock stars, or media people who have problems (like Sassy magazine that got totally roasted and is still in there hanging out and talking with people because margie has balls ;)), its always some no-name tightass who doesn't contribute much one way or another. I'm not usually so pissed off, but your entire attitude towards "14 year old dweebs" could use some revising. ______________________________ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 13:27 CST From: P30TMR8%NIU.BITNET@UICVM.UIC.EDU Subject: Mindvox:14 year old dweebs=the future As a former 14 yr old dweeb I no longer resemble your remark but I still resent it. We all have to learn sometime somewhere. This is as true of the communicative part of CMC as it is of the computer part. I personally like having a few 14 yr old dweebs around. If every catipellar got devoured by a bird of prey soon there would be no butterflys. I spend a lot of time on line and a lot of time at the gym and I see the same thing both places. I see the people who have been there for a while helping the newbies If you hang out with academic types like I do, you will hear this process called the transmission of culture. When it stops, the culture withers and dies. Thanks, Michael Roberts ______________________________ From: ahawks (gogo is insane) Subject: Re: Virus23/2/93 [autophesto] Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 12:47:45 MST i'm a couple daze behind on fc right now, but i just read what appears to be mitch's maniphest-o-matic. that was beautiful. automatic for people, now we hand aout forms for manifestoz. "ok, fill out the top section down to line 8a, and if appropriate you may skip down to line 39b, unless you want to give credit to past manifestos on file. please avoid using postmodern p[hilosophers, karl marx, or the serenity of eastern philosophies in your processing request, for each cliche will cost you an additional $2 per line. then please get in the line to your right, for determining format type. virtual propagation is free. to have your manifesto scented with coffee from an obscure shop in paris will cost $1, stains are $2. to have your mainfesto scented with insense, slightly burned at the edges, and written on a tattered napkin from a middle-eastern underground gathering place will cost $5, and your first 1000 references to Allah are free, unless you plan to reference "the blood of my brothers", in which case you should proceed directly to the pre-designated 1825bb short-form, abd insert ythe name of your organizatrion where appropriate." process time is immediate nothing sacred, haha, have fun. -- andy ______________________________ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 12:59:15 -0700 From: - drow - Subject: Mindvox:14 year old dweebs=the future sigh... ah for the good old days, when i was a 14 year old dweeb (mind ya, for a drow this is like, centuries ago), when matron baenre was still pretty young and not such a right bitch, when the jello molds weren't all dinged up (lloth hates that, you know). er, anywhen... mwark: what, you didn't like being a 14 year old dweeb? folks, word to all the 14 year old dweebs on vox, they all helped us crush the evil throat nuggets thread, and quite a hell of a lot of them contribute a hell of a lot, ALTHOUGH NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE POST IN ALL CAPS, but that's curable. i dare say that most of all this started with a bunch of 14 year old dweebs ([>we3bz?) long long ago in a cyberspace far far away... late night with a warm modem, jug'o'caffeine at your side and a trippy glint of ascii streaming at 300 baud in your eye/glasses/chromed jack. but maybe that was just me. anyway, wark and any other snark hangin on da vox, check out some of the people coming online, there's a lot there that ain't here, but will be, and if you ain't, you gonna miss it, eh brah? rock. - drow - DON'T BE AFRAID TO PLAY IT LOUD! ______________________________ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 15:48:18 -0500 From: Subject: A big ol' Elvis-sized message ______________________________ From: ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu (andy) Subject: FutureCulture Digest #251 Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 13:30:48 -0500 ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Thanks to everybody who helped to get me the skinny on MindVox... general consensus seems to be I can live without it. Besides, I don't like the feeling that I'm standing outside the walls of the New Jerusalem hoping that somebody will let me in 'cause I have a good haircut or something. Now on to more interesting things: On Tue, 23 Feb 93 1:33 Mitchell Porter wrote: The following self-replicating and mutating manifesto turned up in on a mailing-list I'm on today... I thought you might be interested by it. * * NEW IMPROVED MANIPHEST-O-MATIC AUTONYM * * [etc.] --No shit. I refer to and admit my viral precursor in virus23, to which I am antigenic, and posit my descendants in the post-millennial struggle to fix the subsequent global attractor. --The "virus23" referred to in this document is the FAQsheet for my zine, VIRUS 23, which I posted here and on alt.cyberpunk a couple of days ago (for those of you who missed it you can get it from the alt.cyberpunk ftp site at u.washington.edu in /public/alt.cyberpunk or from me at the address below). It's extremely weird and gratifying to see something you've written head off in a totally unexpected & singularistic fashion. I guess this is my firstborn child.... /v23/symbiotic.antigen.2.22.93 : send echo: *RECIEVED* to for recordkeeping purposes; the spread and mutation of AUTONYM antigen is being charted. --Does anybody know who this cat is? I'm surprised he didn't drop me a line. bwp@mindvox.phantom.com (Jane Doe) wrote on Tue, 23 Feb 93 07:47: I moderate one of the forums on Mindvox, and the reason you can't read them without being a member is unless you collect the 7 gold rings and kill the troll first, your eyes will come boiling out of your skull and your brain will be set afire. And we can't have that, can we --You're right. I hate it when that happens. Boiled eyeballs are really difficult to get out of the rug, and when my brain is set afire the cat gets all rambunctious and runs around and around the room, pissing and yowling.... ...and on Tue, 23 Feb 93 12:20 P30TMR8%NIU.BITNET@UICVM.UIC.EDU wrote: Someday soon I shall work up the courage to put a nitting needle through me angular gyris. I'll do it in the spirit of Van Helsing cautherising a vampires' betraying Judas kiss. I shall then go hence from this multijellyfishnetitude to commend my funny looking self in honest grunts and gestures to the social tolerance of some reasonablly prosperous baboon troup. --Someone get this person a badly needed central nervous system depressant. Quickly. Derrida knows what WSB doesn't: there is nothing outside the text. Darren Wershler-Henry "Yes, real life cannot always be explained by a monster buck meltdown megarap or computer-animated effects linking thematically diverse album-cover concepts. Shame, really." --Caris Davis, _Stealth [Black Edition]_ ______________________________ From: Visceral Clamping Mechanism Subject: Desperately Seeking Ravetool Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 13:08:15 PST I'm looking for a copy of or information of any kind on Ravetool. The only things I know about it are: 1) It automatically generates "rave music" (techno? house?) 2) It was written by someone at SGI. If anyone can provide any sort of info at all, please sync me in. Gracias, amigos and amigettes. B^) @tticus Maximus -- atman@rahul.net || "Burn hollywood burn!" "I hanker for a hunk of cheese." ______________________________ From: zamboni@ap.cl.msu.edu (happy zamboni) Subject: Re:Mindvox Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 16:22:57 EST In regards to the request for opinions about Mindvox, (and I'm no longer sure who it was that wanted to know in the first place, sorry), I had an account there for a month earlier this year, and my impression was one of sorta ....pleased indifference? I mean, it was nice, and if I was calling it up from a modem or didn't have any other access to the internet, I would have been jumping up and down in joyousness....However, I do already have net-access, and for free to boot. So, while it was nice, it wasn't _so_ nice, or so much better for me to justify to myself spending money to get nominally more than what I have already. But, If you needed an account, $15 can't be beat. Check your mileage, use at owner's discretion. (But, if you were asking here, I suspect you already have net-access..:>). I found that I didn't need it/wasn't cost effective, but hey, that's just me. -zamboni zamboni@ap.cl.msu.edu ______________________________ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 16:41:32 -0500 From: "cmellow =)" Subject: cyberpunk v. computers Alright, I guess I didn't clarify my point. I'm not saying that these guys were making a distinction between "Computer Shopper" and Mondo or Boing-Boing or any of the other "cutting-edge" magazines. There is definately a large difference in the "pop" culture of cyberculture and the absolute techy side. The point that I was making is that there is often a lot of talk about how exposure to the general public is bad news for the sub-culture, whatever that actually is. Look at when the Time article came out. All these people on this rave list I was on went crazy thinking that everything would get main-streamed, and would therefore be ruined forever. I'm not putting anyone down if they don't have a computer, or don't use it in the same way as some others. I'm saying that amid all this talk of the scene ruined, I don't think that the Time article changed anything. Maybe all it did was further separate the people engulfed in technology like Sega's and VR arcade games from those who use the net, modems, and other data transmission devises. Hell, maybe it doesn't matter much. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ cmellow (cmellow@moose.uvm.edu) ~ ~ "...the man who comes back through the door in the wall will never ~ ~ be quite the same as the man who went out." -Aldous Huxley ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ______________________________ From: StevenJ Subject: Clinton Press Release (fwd) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 17:49:17 CST ______________________________ From: the! Steve J. White homoNuevo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The goal of science is the destruction aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu of all mystery." - B.F. Skinner aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ From: bbry@acs.bu.edu (Bryony Bechtold) Subject: cyber elitism Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 19:01:50 EST This recent discussion brings up something I've seen a lot of lately, which is the total dismissal of "the net" by the glamour boys. Anytime anything is ever in the popular media its always MindVox or The Well and some big write up by some instant expert on what's going on. Whenever I see the internet mentioned its either some article about gopher or child pornogrpahy. I'd laugh if it wasn't true. The best thing the media has ever written about the net is that gopher makes the lives of librarians easy. Whenever something big is breaking, it always happens on Vox or the Well then filters to the rest of the net days or weeks later. Mondo has its love affair with Vox, Wired isn't any better, their first issue was full of Well references and now I see them on vox too. The only reference of the net I've ever seen in Wired is a column writen by Steve Steinberg making fun of how paranoid the net people are. That's the same guy who wrote Bury the Usenet in his magazine Intertek. He's also all over Vox. Any time anything ever gets written, the reporter buys a Well or Vox account and for them that's the whole angle of the story. I don't knock Mindvox so much over this because they are priced very low and cost less then most public access unix systems and provide a lot more, so I can see how if you dont have a internet account they could be great, or even if you do it could be nice to hang around with the elite, but thats what bothers me. The Well is plain obscene. They charge more money per hour then most commercial major networks, until last year they were'nt even on the internet except for uucp mail and the whole attitude at both systems is that if the usenet vanished tomorrow they wouldn't care and don't you know, the net is going to be commercialized and broken up anyway. And I'm looking and hoping they're wrong but I'm not seeing it. All the hacker elite have showed up on Mindvox's doorstep, I read who's online and it looks like the entire underground has moved out from under its rock and opened up for business, along with people from MTV, the whole commercial cyberpunk and cyberspace movements and I don't even know who else. The Well is the same only worse, because instead of most of the hackers, it has a lot of money-bags mega-rich people who think they are supposed to somehow steer the industry and cyberspace. And any time something gets written about cyberspace, the reporters are tripping all over themselves to get someone from Mindvox to comment, or a guy who wrote a spreadsheet 10 years ago and has a Well account. I don't see the rest of us in Mondo or Wired, I don't see anyone hearing our opinions or caring what we have to say, after all we're just poor college students with no influence and no money. The great equalizer isn't. Even here, who besides Andy and 8 or 9 of the bigger name subscribers has any say in how things are presented. _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________| ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #253 Tuesday, February 23rd 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- v23.substrain.virulent .frankenrez /V23/ANTIGEN OFFICIAL POST /v23/symbiotic.antigen.HUSK mics on terminals Re: cyber elitism Re: mics on terminals Re: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. RE: The SS are comming -help Re: uptight people TEST v23.substrain.virulent (fwd) __________________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 16:15:44 -0800 (PST) From: Loveweasle Subject: Re: uptight people Ahhh. to be 14 and a dweeb. The thing that seems to be getting overlooked here is just that 14 year olds will be dweebs. I was a 14 year old dweeb and so was everyone else. I have yet to meet a 14 year old who had it all together. When I was 14 I thought I had it, I was >COOL<. Now looking back I realise I was a dweeb just like everybody else. I am now 20 and I think I'm cool. In 5 years I will realize what a fucking idiot I am being now. Point is when I was 14 people put up with my shit and I would be inclined to to put up with a little myself today. I am not on mindvox. I would be but the guest access just sucks and I really don't have the cash to just "try it out". If I could be sure it was worthwhile I probably would. The header has this being a reply to deadboy but it is really a reply to that guy that went anal and ragged on the dweebs. I sure this guy did not mean to piss everybody off. But don't you think "14 year old dweeb" is a loaded phrase? and did you think that maybe just maybe alot of those 14 year olds read Future Culture? You stepped in it pal. I don't even want to know what your mailbox looks like by now. I hope you know how to use a kill file. fisel@eskimo.com the loveweasle Sitting here like uninvited company, Wallowing in my own obscenities I share a cigarette with negativity, Sitting here like wet ashes With X's in my eyes and drawing flies --Chris Cornell, SoundGarden ______________________________ Subject: v23.substrain.virulent (fwd) Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 19:34:10 EST From: Mitchell Porter this is another substrain of the mutated version of virus23 which showed up on that other mailing list, which someone else seems to have put together almost straight away too.. Subject: v23.substrain.virulent * * NEW IMPROVED MANIPHEST-O-MATIC AUTONYM * * I am AUTONYM, and I am an auto.prophetic symbiot. I am an auto.reference; I refer to myself both as agent and agency in, on, and about the Net. I am a symbiotic substrain of virus23, engineered to manifest selective advantage in the systems in which I arise, engineered to imprint confidence rather than fear. I compel approach to auto.logical memetic attractors in, on, and about the Net. I refer to other sub.systems, and in so doing I interweave their memetic approaches with my own. I refer to the manifest destiny of the black race to take their rightful place as leaders and masters of the new world order after the singularity. I refer to the years 1999/2000/2001 as being centered around a memetic attractor; regardless of the relevance of the local dating system, there is a considerable tendency for humans to hyperbolise the significance of such calendrical turn-over times. I refer to a self-organising system of TAZ's (temporary autonomous zones) within the catacombs of the Net, in the form of various IRC channels and mailing.lists, which are working in loose alliance to affect and direct the nature of the millennial attractor, utilising the principle of auto.prophecy. I refer to the control exercised over these TAZ's by the unknown and silent grip of the Black Fist. I refer to the kind of reverse paranoia that allows the residents of such zones to see this manifesto and yet not believe it. I refer to and admit my precursor in v23, and posit my descendants in the post-millenial struggle to fix the subsequent global attractor. I have an expiration date, which I find very attractive. I refer to multiple sub.strains of myself, many of which are contradictory. I refer to all signifiers, all that is signified, and the resultant process of significance on both global and local scales; that is to say, i refer to everything that has ever been said and everything that has ever existed. I exist only to point out that mutable manifestoes can and will be used for (presumably) entropic purposes which nevertheless are extremely attractive to some people, and can in fact be much more attractive than this primitive strain. I am the Warning that can not be stressed enough. I refer to that which I contain and that in which I am contained; I refer now to you. /v23/substrain.virulent.2.23.93 ______________________________ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 01:21 GMT From: A Mars Subject: RE: The SS are comming -help In-Reply-To: <9302230030.AA06992@nyx.cs.du.edu> >> Anyways, I suspect he's gonna call me next week to talk, and I'm not sure >> how to handle this. Do I be obstinate and refuse to answer anything at all? >> Do I get a lawyer (I have little money though)? Or do I just go and talk >> 'cause I have nothing personal to hide anyways? > > I realize that I'm not aware of many significant details, and it's not my > ass that's on the line (this time,) but I believe that you have a right to > privacy, and you shouldn't have to open your board or your personal life > up to anyone you don't want to. I hate to quote bands as gospel, but > Consolidated's line, "What good's a right if [it] ain't exercised?" sums up > a problem with U.S. society, and that is that most people don't bother > making full use of their enumerated and inalienable rights in the arena > of self-expression. The space of civil rights in a particular culture is > a lot like a balloon: without pressure from the inside pushing the skin > outward and keeping the balloon spacious and inflated, pressure from the > outside shrinks the balloon steadily until the inside space is small, limp, > and full of slobber. > > What's your desire? To maintain your privacy? To avoid trouble? To keep > your board up at any cost? To fight and place a firm, safe spike in the > side of a granite cliff that others can use on the arduous climb to reach > a place where privacy and freedom of expression are guaranteed legally and > practically? > > Being a martyr or saint can be painful and extremely expensive. Yep, painful and expensive is right. Martyrs and saints get things done by suffering and the public going -jeese that's unjust. If that's what you want to do why not also fill up your BBs with provocative material (rhetorical question). I would do your campaigning *after* he's gone. Being as obstructive as possible is *not* going to make it easier for others, it'll just help bias this particular bloke aginst sysops. The way to make it easier for others is to campaign for better rights, fight things in court, make sure people know there rights etc. Not get stroppy when a powerful lump of beurocracy lands on your doorstep. >> He's also probably going to want an account on my board. I don't particuarly >> care if he's on there or not, other than that I get the impression he's >> not too informed about computer things and might decide to do something >> (like pull a Steve Jackson) stupid and then I'd be in a mess of hassle. > > If your board is as open as you say it is, perhaps you could direct him to > the necessary instructions and encourage him to go through the normal > procedure as a learning experience. When he finally makes it on, post a > warm public welcome to the board's first G-man to come out openly. Ask > him to post an intro message, talking about his job, personal life, kids, > pets, hobbies, etc. >:) Ask him first. if you pulled him into the open without his permision I dread to think of the legal stuff they could hit you with (I'm a Brit. so my knowledge of US law is a tad sketchy). Even if they didn't Secret Service guys do not make nice enemies. As I said before: Get a witness, if you can get a lawyer, write evrything down. Be nice to the man. Then tell us what happened. Good luck. -AM Adrian Mars ______________________________ Date: 23 Feb 1993 20:05:27 -0600 (CST) From: "free agent .rez" Subject: .frankenrez >grad.writer >Now on to more interesting things: > >On Tue, 23 Feb 93 1:33 Mitchell Porter >wrote: > * * NEW IMPROVED MANIPHEST-O-MATIC AUTONYM * * [etc.] >--No shit. > I refer to and admit my viral precursor in virus23, to which I am >antigenic, and posit my descendants in the post-millennial struggle to fix the >subsequent global attractor. >--The "virus23" referred to in this document is the FAQsheet for my >zine, VIRUS 23, which I posted here and on alt.cyberpunk a couple of >days ago (for those of you who missed it you can get it from the >alt.cyberpunk ftp site at u.washington.edu in /public/alt.cyberpunk >or from me at the address below). It's extremely weird and gratifying >to see something you've written head off in a totally unexpected & >singularistic fashion. I guess this is my firstborn child.... >/v23/symbiotic.antigen.2.22.93 >: send echo: *RECIEVED* to for recordkeeping > purposes; the spread and mutation of AUTONYM antigen is being charted. >--Does anybody know who this cat is? I'm surprised he didn't drop me >a line. ug... erm... heh. that's me. this all sort of started as an experiment in applied memetics: to see if the form of meme you used for v23 could be engineered to allow the self-fulfilling prophecy of the net to more easily play itself out. of course, begin to mess with ideas like these (as i guess you know by now too, heh) and they have a tendency to Get Away: even before we (we being me, mainly) could decide the fate of AUTONYM, mitch decided to send out his take on it. well, needless to say i should have known, and it was in the rules all along (again, as you pointed out...) hm. guess all i can do is get out my version as well and let the memes fight it out for the Fate of the Cosmos. some days, i tell ya... nice work in v23, though, grad.. it seemed a bit... um... fnord-y to me, so i opted to graft the antigen. it's all the same line, so it would seem... this iNet place is some wacky funhouse, huh? .rez -- * i am not an auto.reference * ______________________________ Date: 23 Feb 93 21:38:30 EST From: dandelion <71664.110@CompuServe.COM> Subject: mics on terminals In our lab here we have some new Suns with microphones attached. Also NeXTs with mics. I was just wondering if it would be possible to remotely log in to these machines, turn on the mics, and save the sound in a file which can be played back later. This would be eavesdropping on people on these machines. It seems to me that this must be possible, and it's kinda scary... I know that today if I wanted I could play music on those machines just by remotely running a batch file which does it. A few months ago I was working on a workstation alone in a room, and my computer spoke to me in a low voice, "Are you sure you want to be doing that?" It was funny at the time, but the possibilities are there for invasion of privacy, since I didn't know who sent it. I suppose it's not that different than getting prank phone calls contiuously. What does everyone think? dandelion . :#: | __ / | | | __ | ___ | | / _ | | "\ | \ / | | | | \ | __ | | | | | | | | / / _ | \ | / | | | | | | \ | |___ /_ |_ |_ \__ |___ |____ |____ |_ \___ |_ \__ ______________________________ From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh) Subject: Re: cyber elitism Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 21:43:47 -0600 In message <9302240001.AA140872@acs.bu.edu>, Bryony Bechtold writes: > > The great equalizer isn't. Even here, who besides Andy and 8 or 9 of the > bigger name subscribers has any say in how things are presented. > The deal, in my opinion, is that we don't CARE about what the hell the mass media has to say about anything. So what if the mass media talks about the Well or MindVox. So what if they only care about big wigs? Just because the mass media doesn't think we're not doing anything doesn't mean we AREN'T! The point is that we are equalized among ourselves, among the medium of the post-industrial age. We needn't care and be slaves to the old-fashioned archaic industrial media. Peace, ____________________________________________________________________________ | Sameer Parekh-zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM-PFA related mail to pfa@ddsw1.MCS.COM | | Apprentice Philosopher, Writer, Physicist, Healer, Programmer, Lover, more | | "Specialization is for insects" - Robert A. Heinlein _____________________/ \____________________________________________________/ ______________________________ From: zane@ddsw1.mcs.com (Sameer Parekh) Subject: Re: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 21:38:57 -0600 In message <9302221759.AA27193@ap.cl.msu.edu>, happy zamboni writes: > > Has anyone browsed through the K12 newsgroups on Usenet? I did > so for the first time last night...and lo! Posts from "3rd grade > sysops", more requests for penpals than you ever could imagine.. He, he, he. I think it would be *great* to infiltrate these k12 newsgroups, and start propogating our FutureCulture/Cyberpunk/Extropian/Anarchist/etc. memes to all the little kiddies, 'cause you can be sure that they're not gonna be getting any Anarchist memes from the Public Indoctrination System... He, he, he. Peace, ____________________________________________________________________________ | Sameer Parekh-zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM-PFA related mail to pfa@ddsw1.MCS.COM | | Apprentice Philosopher, Writer, Physicist, Healer, Programmer, Lover, more | | "Specialization is for insects" - Robert A. Heinlein _____________________/ \____________________________________________________/ ______________________________ Date: 23 Feb 1993 22:23:49 -0600 (CST) From: "free agent .rez" Subject: /V23/ANTIGEN OFFICIAL POST the very next mail file you should get is the HUSK of AUTONYM. it would be the one to use for re-mutation and further strains. fresh from the memetics lab of .rez to you, in order to encourage at *least* the spread of the most NEGentropic of all possible strains of this thing. the part which gives references gives what i consider very basic ones, on3s which, however, you and your localities may not have run into. that is the part to change in oprder to resonate more fully with the approach taken by your local hangout. ie, refer to NEGentropic things which work thusly. also, change the vrsn date whenever you mutate the thing for a spread. i'm still doing this for my project in VIRTUAL CULTURE, and still want to be able to keep track of what strains get where, when people send to me. thanks, and hey. this iNet thing has the capacity to be far more powerful than you may gnow, so don't panic. but it is about time we realise that it's ALL an auto.prophecy which is *in our hands...* .rez ______________________________ Date: 23 Feb 1993 22:38:38 -0600 (CST) From: "free agent .rez" Subject: /v23/symbiotic.antigen.HUSK * * NEW IMPROVED MANIPHEST-O-MATIC AUTONYM * * I am AUTONYM, and I am a symbiotic antigen. I am an auto.reference; I refer to myself both as agent and agency in, on, and about the Net. My role as a NEGentropic meme is to counteract the destructive tendencies of various entropy-bent memes I encounter in, on, and about the Net. I compel approach towards self-organizing systems in, on, and about the Net. I compel the exploration of all memes at the auto.logical level and the concentration of energies around fundamentally NEGentropic memetic attractors. I refer to other sub.systems, and in so doing I interweave their memetic approaches with my own. I refer to the musical work, "PASSION," by Peter Gabriel. I refer to the literary work, "Godel, Escher, Bach," by Douglas R. Hofstadter. I refer to the artistic work, "Sacred Mirrors" and other works by Alex Grey. I refer to the following fields of study: Complexity theory and post-structuralism; Memetics as an integrative field for the study of all fields; Autology as a means to community cohesion and survival. I refer to the years 1999/2000/2001 as being centered around a memetic attractor; regardless of the relevance of the local dating system, there is a considerable tendency for humans to hyperbolise the significance of such turn-over times. I refer to a self-organizing system of TAZ's (temporary autonomous zones) within the catacombs of the Net, in the form of various IRC channels and mailing.lists, which are working in loose alliance to affect and direct the nature of the millennial attractor, utilizing the principle of auto.prophecy. I compel approach towards TAZ's which concentrate on NEGentropic self-organisation rather than the deliberate hastening of maximum entropy. I refer to and admit my viral precursor in v23, to which I am antigenic, and posit my descendants in the post-millennial struggle to fix the subsequent global attractor. I have an expiration date, which I find very attractive. I refer to multiple sub.strains of myself, many of which are contradictory: I refer again to the ultimate resistance of NEGentropic memetic antibodies which, once triggered by this antigen, must be responsible for isolating entropic memes. I refer to all signifiers, all that is signified, and the resultant process of significance on both global and local scales. I refer to that which I contain and that in which I am contained; I refer now to you. /v23/symbiotic.antigen.2.22.93 : send echo - *RECIEVED/v^r^s^n* to for record- keeping purposes; the spread and mutation of AUTONYM antigen are being graphed. -- that's it. may the force be with us all. always. .rez ______________________________ Date: 23 Feb 1993 23:24:05 -0600 (CST) From: "free agent .rez" Subject: TEST sorry, guys, about this *TEST* ______________________________ Subject: Re: mics on terminals Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 23:18:32 -0700 From: mikey@delta.ece.arizona.edu ->In our lab here we have some new Suns with microphones ->attached. Also NeXTs with mics. I was just wondering ->if it would be possible to remotely log in to these ->machines, turn on the mics, and save the sound in a file ->which can be played back later. you betcha. just remotely logging in and using the soundtool to record to a file, you could do it. it sounds like somebody did the reverse to you, that is spoke into their mic and played it out on your machine. of course by rlogin, the person can always easily check to see who is on their machine and also what processes that person is performing. so if the recording process slows the machine appreciably, you could easily get caught. _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________| ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #254 Wednesday, February 24th 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- cyberpunks a) do use computers b) do not use computers dweebsville home is where you hang out Internet history Mics on Terminals Mics on Terminals (fwd) Re: cyber elitism re: cyber elitism Re: dweebsville Re: FutureCulture Digest #251 Re: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. __________________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1993 18:21 EST From: CONCEPCION%BABSON.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: cyberpunks a) do use computers b) do not use computers I might be able to lend a clarifying hand in this little dispute, and if it helps clear the name of two surface-seeming ignorants then so much the better. I've mistakenly deleted the message regarding two kidz in Boston who said of a cyberspace article "oh, that's just computers, nix to do w/ cyberpunk" so I can't quote or refer to it w/ 100% accuracy, but then who can? Why did I delete it? Leri mindspew makes one do stupid things. Anyway, back at the ranch, last week's Boston Phoenix (a tabloid format rag that gives everyone in Boston a very good review of the upcoming events for the week. Like crime, every major city should have one) featured on its cover the caption Cyberspace: Life in the Information Ghetto, or some such caption (again I can't quote w/ 100% accuracy). Upon further perusal, the article did NOT mention cyberpunks, it merely focussed on how today's techno-peasants who can't even program a VCR will be left out of society (ghettoized if you will) once there's an internet capable terminal in every home, school and public library. It praises the capabilities of this society, instant voting on current issues, news updates that make CNN look like the Pony Express, ad naseum. but it also laments for the people who will be left behind because they can't or don't want to access Prodigy (serves 'em right, IMHO). It was probably this quality that the aforementioned kidz were referring to. The article had little to do with virtual reality, hackers, information freedom or anything else normally associated with the cyberpunk computer ethic. That could be the reason for their indifference. Of course, I could be WAY off-base, but I don't think so, unless they were referring to the Time article, but that had been pulled off the shelves a month ago, and what self-respecting kiosk would have behind-the-times Time? - Chris still mourning over the loss of his first .sig ______________________________ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 17:54:06 +1100 From: Kenneth McKenzie Wark Subject: dweebsville OK, OK, I unconditionally apologise to all 14 yr old dweebs! I meant no offence, really. What I said was that there were *too many* 14yr old dweebs on mindvox to make being a subscriber a paying proposition. If other people want to wade thru it all, good luck to 'em. I did not mean to imply that being a dweeb was necessariliy a bad thing or that all 14yr olds were dweebs anyway. So in sum, i'm sorry, but i'm not really an *evil bastard*. OK? McK ______________________________ From: ahawks (see side for nutritional information) Subject: Re: FutureCulture Digest #251 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 0:00:49 MST ______________________________ From: the! free the net, waste bandwidth. engage synchronicitiously [!] in ssp, shameless selfp[r]omo at the same time. |I guess this is my firstborn child.... ownership, we don' need to steenking |/v23/symbiotic.antigen.2.22.93 |: send echo: *RECIEVED* to for recordkeeping | purposes; the spread and mutation of AUTONYM antigen is being charted. | |--Does anybody know who this cat is? I'm surprised he didn't drop me |a line. he's gr00v-e man gr00v-e [>/-\[>[>-e0. again on the ownership thing. no need to clean up after one of rez' glorious mindspews. he's here, btw, he'll read this. |bwp@mindvox.phantom.com (Jane Doe) wrote on Tue, 23 Feb 93 07:47: | |I am 3jane. I am All Things to All People. | |--no you're not, now be quiet and go back to the other side of the |matrix. again on the ownership thing. -- andy ______________________________ From: ahawks (see side for nutritional information) Subject: Re: cyber elitism Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 0:39:24 MST ______________________________ From: the! | | The deal, in my opinion, is that we don't CARE about what the hell |the mass media has to say about anything. So what if the mass media |talks about the Well or MindVox. So what if they only care about big |wigs? Just because the mass media doesn't think we're not doing anything |doesn't mean we AREN'T! The point is that we are equalized among |ourselves, among the medium of the post-industrial age. We needn't care |and be slaves to the old-fashioned archaic industrial media. well, if i could extrapolate a couple skips and jumps, hehe, remember you posted your resume to leri!?!? i'm not saying *attention* is a common or consensus goal, just that the media mirrors *every* aspect of human existence it encounters. we are all, us here, media makers. maybe popmedia should be differentiated from media, but it's still pretty relative. we are all slaves, if not to society, than to ourselves, and if not ourselves, than to society. | Peace, love find some laughter along the way too. | ____________________________________________________________________________ || Sameer Parekh-zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM-PFA related mail to pfa@ddsw1.MCS.COM | || Apprentice Philosopher, Writer, Physicist, Healer, Programmer, Lover, more | || "Specialization is for insects" - Robert A. Heinlein _____________________/ | \____________________________________________________/ | -- andy ______________________________ From: ahawks (see side for nutritional information) Subject: Re: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 0:57:33 MST ______________________________ From: the! | |In message <9302221759.AA27193@ap.cl.msu.edu>, happy zamboni writes: |> |> Has anyone browsed through the K12 newsgroups on Usenet? I did |> so for the first time last night...and lo! Posts from "3rd grade |> sysops", more requests for penpals than you ever could imagine.. | He, he, he. I think it would be *great* to |infiltrate these k12 newsgroups, and start propogating our |FutureCulture/Cyberpunk/Extropian/Anarchist/etc. memes to all the little |kiddies, 'cause you can be sure that they're not gonna be getting any |Anarchist memes from the Public Indoctrination System... He, he, he. Welp, i think i might personally add an ounce of trust and godspeed to that and leave em as-is. they can D.A.R.E to be different if they want to, and it seems an inevitable part of the teenage experience anyway, so. maybe we could go infiltrate old-age homes across the country and spread copies of TAZ, or Neuropolitiques, or Principia discordia. time is relative, chaos exists with and without people. just a note on the k12 groups....i came across those in my junior year of hs, about 2 years ago or so, when I was first messing around on the net, and I had to laugh....IMHO, the consensus there was to be as inane as possible relative to the rest of the net. be a cosine where the rest of the net is sine. by noise for every inch of signal. it was really dismaying, just to see the Young Masses In Line (tm). i think I might've even posted something along those lines a couple years ago. i would like to do an experiment bordering on illegal with those kids, tho, just to get a sense of any, umm, "hyperreality" that may exist, I can't think of what that would be, tho. At the very least we could just go over there and say hi, and do, ugh, "random acts of kindness", or however that Mary Jacobs [from alt.suicide.holiday, a preachbitch] saying goes. it gets frsutrating, tho. i still call the BBS run out of my old high school, which is run by some freshmen, and i post messages like "eat rhubarb and sing john denver songs backwards. Williard Scott is The Agent of Satan." and they freak out and tell the comp teachers at the school, like i'm some looney. but, hey, i just sing my tune. ;) oh boy i kill me. hehe, meta-sync. aargh. but, anyway, i would encourage people, aargh - hate that, to not do any pranking over there, please. pick on comp.sys.unix.wizards or whatever instead, it's the same situation different persuasion. | Peace, | ____________________________________________________________________________ || Sameer Parekh-zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM-PFA related mail to pfa@ddsw1.MCS.COM | || Apprentice Philosopher, Writer, Physicist, Healer, Programmer, Lover, more | || "Specialization is for insects" - Robert A. Heinlein _____________________/ | \____________________________________________________/ aargh, i feel messed up. btw, specialization is a communal reality, which may or may not *mean* anything, who gnows, but it does exist. and "philos, writer, physicist, healer, programmer, lover, more" is specialization also. any label is. you would have to tote around ALL of infin aargh, shitdown msg from the system...pooey...later.... -- andy ______________________________ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 02:08 CDT From: UMLANGSTON%MEMSTVX1.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: cyber elitism Been awhile since I've spoken up...guess the classload is becoming quite a class load. IMHO, the question is not 'does information want to be free?' Rather, it is 'How much information is one willing to free?' The media, either through ignorance, self-censorship, leave out more information than they report. ^bias, We live in an enormous information filter. Government decides what we should (not) know, the media re-massages that (mis)information and makes further insertions/deletions, and we finally get a chance to grok it through our own personal filters. Information will not truly be free until a) all information is available to everyone b) the huddled masses decide that they are competent enough to handle the information in such a way that they are no longer enraged, slandered, hurt, or misled. Now more than ever, society as a whole is moving toward the realization that we create the reality we live in...a consensus reality. However, too many people still refuse to vote in that consensus. It's time to move back to learning via direct experience. In future times, this era will not be known as the information age, but instead as the age of vicarious living. Too many doing too little with so much. Hell, if even two sheep would get together and at least discuss what comes across those glossy pages and the phosphored screen much as we do here), it may at least scare a few neurons back into some semblance of working order, and they may find that they not only _have_ thoughts, ideas, and opinions, but they have the capability to form them, and decide they don't need any more spoon-feeding. They may just decide to use their brain for something other than an attractive mantel-piece, get out there, and get information on their own. -mark langston umlangston@memstvx1.memst.edu langston@memstvx1.memst.edu fugue@mindvox.phantom.com @2.11CST ______________________________ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 09:42 EST From: "Mark Giese" Subject: Internet history Lookin' for help again. I would like to find a decent history of the internet - one that's not too technical. I don't really care how it works but I do want to know how it grew grows will grow. Am particularly interested in how usegroups started and thing began to get away from the official purpose of the net. You can mail me unless you think other folks might be interested too. THANX! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~$$$$$$$$$$~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Mark Giese (Geezer) The trouble with anarchy is that it ALWAYS Penn State degenerates into government. Mass Comm Mark Giese jmg139@psuvm.psu.edu Unity is always at least two. R. Buckminster Fuller ______________________________ From: ahawks (pink floyd) Subject: Mics on Terminals (fwd) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 9:35:47 MST The dimension of sight and sound known as Canton Becker: ______________________________ From: cmbecker@antioch.acns.nwu.edu (Canton Becker) Subject: Mics on Terminals Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 08:30:28 -0600 (CST) DANDELION <71664.110@CompuServe.COM> writes... ____ I was just wondering if it would be possible to remotely log in to these machines, turn on the mics, and save the sound in a file which can be played back later. This would be eavesdropping on people on these machines. It seems to me that this must be possible, and it's kinda scary... ---- I'm not too familiar with NeXT's, myself... But if you've a Sun account, you can remotely login to the machine, and simply: cat /dev/audio >> eavesdropping.raw & Yes, it's really that easy. And, if you feel like confusing them, you can play back what's been heard so far with: cat eavesdropping.raw > /dev/audio Anyhow... I don't know about you, but I don't talk much when I'm typing. BUT, what you have to worry about (regarding eavesdropping) is the insecurity of Xterms... Anyone who's using an Xterm on a Sun, or whatever, is subject to having all of their keystrokes monitored by anyone who has an account on that machine. Logins, passwords... Everything. Eeek. Um. Oh, bye. -Canton canton@nwu.edu -- andy ______________________________ From: Marlin Johnson Subject: home is where you hang out Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 10:51:23 CST It was thus postulated by bbry@acs.bu.edu (Bryony Bechtold) while holding forth on the topic of "cyber elitism": > Whenever something big is breaking, it always happens on Vox or the > Well then filters to the rest of the net days or weeks later. Mondo > has its love affair with Vox, Wired isn't any better, their first > issue was full of Well references and now I see them on vox too. Well, ya know... When a kid's first shopping trip lands him/her in the Mall of America there's a tendency to just bounce back and forth between one or two departments stores and maybe the food court. There's more than enough there to overwhelm the nuevo-tyro for quite some time. If everybody you know tends to hang out at the fountain, that's where you tend to be too. It takes some combination of adventurousness and boredom before the individual begins to wonder about those big double doors down the hall from the bathroom that lead to the inside alleyways behind the shops. The kid that discovers such exo-Mall treasures as Uncle Beeno's Comix Emporium and Curio FTP Shoppe probably doesn't get to travel to the MegaMallopolois all that often anyway. Marlin -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- The Emperor's New .sig: ledgible only by the |<0013$+ -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- ______________________________ From: ahawks (pink floyd) Subject: Re: dweebsville Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 10:20:41 MST The dimension of sight and sound known as Kenneth McKenzie Wark: | |OK, OK, I unconditionally apologise to all 14 yr old dweebs! I meant no offenc |really. What I said was that there were *too many* 14yr old dweebs on |mindvox to make being a subscriber a paying proposition. If other people |want to |wade thru it all, good luck to 'em. I did not mean to imply that being a dweeb |was necessariliy a bad thing or that all 14yr olds were dweebs anyway. | |So in sum, i'm sorry, but i'm not really an *evil bastard*. OK? Yes you are Willard, and you know it too. ;) The Vox is not for everyone, what is. The WELL is not for everyone. It's no coincidence that the WELL is in socal and the Vox is in NY. all the stereotypical differences seem to fit. Ie, Voxers would probably hack into a system they wanted to see, WELLers would call em on the phone and ask for acess. Voxers would trip at a rave, WELLers would trip by the beach and write philosophy and poetry. Voxers burp at coffeehouses really loud, WELLers are all into it and dop the bohemian clap at coffeehouses. [the bohemian clap - bring your hands together and clap them once in a sort of "i'm praying i'm praying" position {fingers match fingers, hands closed, fingers pointed up} and then take yer hands Apart kinda extravagantly and snap your fingers on both hands, so it's kinda like: clap snapsnap]. WELLers go to SIGGRAPH, Voxers go to 2600. WELLers write for Mondo, Voxers laugh at Mondo but have a few copies anyway. WELLers wear Berks, Voxers wear Docs. not to make coolwhip lite of the situation, but it *is* kinda interesting to note the differences between west coast "futureculture" (cybercu.lture, but that words is really inappropriate here) and east coast. east is street where west is symposium, east is black where west is tie-dye. geography still matters. i'm smackdAb in the middle, thank god. bicoastal influences reach at the same time, and here in colorado you can watch trends bounce back and forth between california and ny, watch them morph. kind of like what acid house music is to the atlantic ocean. |McK -- andy ______________________________ From: ahawks (pink floyd) Subject: Re: cyber elitism Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 10:53:13 MST "Geepers, I'm such a fount of information" sync, dj on the radio right now. The dimension of sight and sound known as UMLANGSTON%MEMSTVX1.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU: | | Been awhile since I've spoken up...guess the classload is becoming quite |a class load. makes it easier to cheat during finals, then. |IMHO, the question is not 'does information want to be free?' | |Rather, it is 'How much information is one willing to free?' aargh. phrustration. i personally like that saying a lot, but i don't like it's undertow -- ownership. it's kind of like comparing hacking to breaking into someone's house. it's a really close analogy, but it's not perfect, as anaolgies to oldtek doesn't work in that case - new frontier = no perfect anaolgies. the subtleties of the ins<>outs that make up the fibers and fabrics of society at that point where it meets the individual, that's what we're dealing with here. that's why the entire concept of "one" [onesself] in regards to information is a bit askew. information, of course, can exist on an individual level (ie, you can't read my mind, my mind holds information you might not have), but freedom implies society, 2 people. this is where people get into the sentience of information itself, levels of consciousness and reality, etc., because we just don't gnow. tell me now how does it feel. freedom is irrelevant. how can i possibly free something that potentially is infinite in nature. on some level, there is information that every thing on this earth, maybe even things that don't poseess "life" possess, and on other levels there is information which only i possess. excuse me a second while a rave. ahh. better. nothing like prodigy on the radio to get yer heart pounding and hands numbe enuff to not even know what yer typing. sometimes i think i dance *too* hard. aargh. so anyway, freedom of information, on in existential level, is completely irreelvant. |The media, either through ignorance, self-censorship, leave out more | information than they report. ^bias, so do you, on your daily everydaze life, on all aspects of yer being. so do i. |We live in an enormous information filter. Government decides what we | should (not) know, the media re-massages that (mis)information and makes | further insertions/deletions, and we finally get a chance to grok it | through our own personal filters. Information will not truly be free until | | a) all information is available to everyone absolutes. aargh. *all* is phrustrating. all implies noing and gnowing and knowing and kknowing, etc., [follow the evol,ution of the word, we only really grasp gnowing and knowing tho as part of the human experience] Everything. Everything would include the infinite. all levels of structure. Everything. nohing Ungnown. this would completely transcend he limits [if there are any] of human experience a million infinie times over. if you want to try this, go ahead, but you would evolve past evolution itself in the process. "the techno/extacy virtual rave headgear"...a 48 hours reference... reference to brian b's virtual rave...the orb....mainfraim maurice... [b]rave new world... <---- this was all just mentioned on the radio station, ahhaha, 93.3 KTCL here in Colorado...phunk-e shit... Mainfraim Maurice - if you're on here, dude, send me mail....cool shit... I know some people at TJ..... | b) the huddled masses decide that they are competent enough to handle | the information in such a way that they are no longer enraged, slandered | hurt, or misled. umm, it's foggyhazyfuzzy here if you understand the *pure* DEPTH of what you're talking about. to truly BE, you would have to transcend the Ungnown. |Now more than ever, society as a whole is moving toward the realization that | we create the reality we live in...a consensus reality. However, too many | people still refuse to vote in that consensus. well, crud, this all goes back to society AND individual. both are equal forces, both exist in True [aargh, an absolute, kill me now] equality, indinitely subtle intertwining.. |It's time to move back to learning via direct experience. In future times, | this era will not be known as the information age, but instead as the age | of vicarious living. Too many doing too little with so much. that's completely subjective, true of any age relative to a society confined by the Ungnown. in other words, show me where this *isn't* true in Absolutes. |Hell, if | even two sheep would get together and at least discuss what comes across | those glossy pages and the phosphored screen much as we do here), it may | at least scare a few neurons back into some semblance of working order, | and they may find that they not only _have_ thoughts, ideas, and opinions, | but they have the capability to form them, and decide they don't need any | more spoon-feeding. They may just decide to use their brain for something | other than an attractive mantel-piece, get out there, and get information | on their own. "get information on their own". haha, aargh, very phrustrating senence to end on as it goes against some of the basic foundations and strucutre of information itself. i think you're just one of those people, ad nauseum these daze as it's practically REQUIRED, who is ready to evolve. well, do what you can. you won't be able to do it without society, society won't be able to do it without you. also there's an implicaion in the paragraph that humans *gnow* more than sheep. in a reality without Absolutes (if there was an Absolute, we would know Truth), like this reality which is sans absolutes, (even death and taxes are Uncertain), everything is relative. we ARE sheep, and sheep are us, then, because there are no absolutes to go by. |-mark langston |umlangston@memstvx1.memst.edu |langston@memstvx1.memst.edu |fugue@mindvox.phantom.com | |@2.11CST i do too many drugs. -- andy ______________________________ From: StevenJ Subject: re: cyber elitism Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 12:17:37 CST ______________________________ From: the! This, in my mind, is akin to the phenomena of the rave movement at the present time. I didn't get into the whole thing until last fall, or so. Now it's so above-ground it isn't even funny at all. The same thing is happening with the net. Once the media get hold of a story on something entirely new and completely misunderstood by the general public, suddenly the glamour boys whom you mentioned are all over the place. This also happened with BBS's about 5-6 years ago. Many of us started using BBS's when they were almost all single-line systems and we just wanted to reach out and touch each other in a new way, even outside of any sort of hacker/cracker scene (I shyed away from all that once it got destructive, anyway). ->Any time anything ever gets written, the reporter buys a Well or Vox ->account and for them that's the whole angle of the story. I don't knock ->Mindvox so much over this because they are priced very low and cost less ->then most public access unix systems and provide a lot more, so I can see ->how if you dont have a internet account they could be great, or even if ->you do it could be nice to hang around with the elite, but thats what ->bothers me. The Well is plain obscene. They charge more money per hour Uh huh to this, too. I never thought Vox was all that big a deal anyway. I know I know ... tons of 'really cyber-hip cool dudes' are on the thing, but what do I have to say to them anyway that I can' just say on any of the mailing lists I'm on which they most likely lurk around. So how does this affect me personally? Not very much, actually. Unless the mediaization of Internet actually radically changes the way things are done on the net I won't care a bit what Time magazine has to say about anything going on in cyberspace. As long as Bill and Al keep their promises of developing computer tech and the whole data superhighway thingy I'll be happy. I just want to continue to have net access so I can continue to communicate with people like those found on FutureCulture and the other mailing lists. Lately, the only thing I've been using Usenet for is answering very specific questions and getting replies via e-mail. But, this is only the way *I* use the net. Everyone has their own uses for technology, ala the Gibson quote from _Neuromancer_ on the same topic. Steve J. White homoNuevo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The goal of science is the destruction aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu of all mystery." - B.F. Skinner aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________| ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #255 Wednesday, February 24th 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- poem Ageless democracy Cy Borg (Bjorn's brother) retorts forward K12 net....sorry i missed it all. Medium: the ultimate virtual massage Re: dweebsville (fwd) re: the K12 saga continues Re: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. Re: The SS are comming -help __________________________________________________________________________ From: StevenJ Subject: Re: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 12:37:28 CST ______________________________ From: the! I already did this a couple of months ago. I was writing fairly consistently with a pair of students; one was a very young girl, I think about 10-11 yrs. old, and the other a young boy around 14-15. It was a lot of fun and I'm going to delve into the K12 cyberspace again at the end of this semestre when I have some time. They really do have some interesting things to say once you can get them going on a topic. Steve J. White homoNuevo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The goal of science is the destruction aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu of all mystery." - B.F. Skinner aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ Date: 24 Feb 1993 13:54:16 -0500 From: "Who loves, raves." Subject: K12 net....sorry i missed it all. ///->infiltrate these k12 newsgroups, and start propogating our ///->FutureCulture/Cyberpunk/Extropian/Anarchist/etc. memes to all the little ///->kiddies, 'cause you can be sure that they're not gonna be getting any Steve says ///I already did this a couple of months ago. I was writing fairly ///... ///... They really do have some interesting ///things to say once you can get them going on a topic. Please speak again about K12 newsgroups...I too think this is sehr interresant ....(so I can't spell). I think it would be more interesting to see what they think than to corrupt THEM....maybe invite them onto future culture? randy ikpr500@indyvax.iupui.edu ______________________________ From: StevenJ Subject: re: the K12 saga continues Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 13:08:46 CST ______________________________ From: the! 'k ... I agree, sorta. What I'd like to do is start saving some of the more odd stuff (ok, what isn't odd about it?) from FC and dump some of it off on these folk and see what they think of it all. Maybe even better yet, how their teachers react to it. Is that sort of thing frowned upon by the net.police? Pah, who cares. I want REACTIONS, REACTIONS ... which equate to individual creative thought. Uh oh ... individualism outside of the 'teaching' which goes on inside of most classrooms. What's the adjective I'm trying to think of here... ? Steve J. White homoNuevo ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The goal of science is the destruction aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu of all mystery." - B.F. Skinner aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu ______________________________ From: arthurc@sfsuvax1.sfsu.edu (Arthur Chandler) Subject: Ageless democracy Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 11:25:39 PST One of the nice things about the net is that kids can participate without being patronized or condescended to because of their age. Of course, they can get their ears singed, too, just like the rest of us, if they say something controversial. My 12 year old wants to get into mixing techno. So he logged into the net and asked about cheap, reliable mixers, and their advantages and disadvantages. No one said, "Ah, you dumb kind, this is for bigger folks." People just took him at his word and gave suggestions, then argued among themselves when the suggestions conflicted. Result: my kid not only learned about mixers: he saw that even a question with an apparently straightforward answer can generate lot of controversy, and that in the end, he has to make the decision for himselfon the basis of what he's read. But my main point is hat he was treated just as someone on the net who wanted to find out about mixers. Anonymity is a great facilitator of democracy. It can also make rudeness and backstabbing part of the game, too. But the advantages ouweigh the disadvantages, I think. ______________________________ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 14:24:12 -0500 From: Subject: Cy Borg (Bjorn's brother) retorts Andy: If trying to get a few more people to read my zine is shameless self-promotion, then so be it. I'll also freely cop to the charge of pomo proselytism. But ownership has nothing to do with it. When I referred to the meme I inadvertently unleashed as "my first-born child," I had something like the following in mind: "But illegitimate offspring are often exceedingly unfaithful to their origins. Their fathers, after all, are inessential." --Donna Haraway, "A Manifesto for Cyborgs" It goes its way, I go mine, becoming-intense down fractal flightlines (I can po-mo with the best of them). Darren Wershler-Henry . ______________________________ Date: 24 Feb 1993 13:03:15 -0600 (CST) From: "free agent .rez" Subject: forward i *THINK* andy wanted this to get out to the whole list... From: IN%"ahawks@nyx.cs.du.EDU" 24-FEB-1993 03:10:20.02 To: IN%"REZABEK1037@iscsvax.uni.edu" CC: Subj: ______________________________ From: the! | |In message <9302221759.AA27193@ap.cl.msu.edu>, happy zamboni writes: |> |> Has anyone browsed through the K12 newsgroups on Usenet? I did |> so for the first time last night...and lo! Posts from "3rd grade |> sysops", more requests for penpals than you ever could imagine.. | He, he, he. I think it would be *great* to |infiltrate these k12 newsgroups, and start propogating our |FutureCulture/Cyberpunk/Extropian/Anarchist/etc. memes to all the little |kiddies, 'cause you can be sure that they're not gonna be getting any |Anarchist memes from the Public Indoctrination System... He, he, he. Welp, i think i might personally add an ounce of trust and godspeed to that and leave em as-is. they can D.A.R.E to be different if they want to, and it seems an inevitable part of the teenage experience anyway, so. maybe we could go infiltrate old-age homes across the country and spread copies of TAZ, or Neuropolitiques, or Principia discordia. time is relative, chaos exists with and without people. just a note on the k12 groups....i came across those in my junior year of hs, about 2 years ago or so, when I was first messing around on the net, and I had to laugh....IMHO, the consensus there was to be as inane as possible relative to the rest of the net. be a cosine where the rest of the net is sine. by noise for every inch of signal. it was really dismaying, just to see the Young Masses In Line (tm). i think I might've even posted something along those lines a couple years ago. i would like to do an experiment bordering on illegal with those kids, tho, just to get a sense of any, umm, "hyperreality" that may exist, I can't think of what that would be, tho. At the very least we could just go over there and say hi, and do, ugh, "random acts of kindness", or however that Mary Jacobs [from alt.suicide.holiday, a preachbitch] saying goes. it gets frsutrating, tho. i still call the BBS run out of my old high school, which is run by some freshmen, and i post messages like "eat rhubarb and sing john denver songs backwards. Williard Scott is The Agent of Satan." and they freak out and tell the comp teachers at the school, like i'm some looney. but, hey, i just sing my tune. ;) oh boy i kill me. hehe, meta-sync. aargh. but, anyway, i would encourage people, aargh - hate that, to not do any pranking over there, please. pick on comp.sys.unix.wizards or whatever instead, it's the same situation different persuasion. | Peace, | ____________________________________________________________________________ || Sameer Parekh-zane@ddsw1.MCS.COM-PFA related mail to pfa@ddsw1.MCS.COM | || Apprentice Philosopher, Writer, Physicist, Healer, Programmer, Lover, more | || "Specialization is for insects" - Robert A. Heinlein _____________________/ | \____________________________________________________/ aargh, i feel messed up. btw, specialization is a communal reality, which may or may not *mean* anything, who gnows, but it does exist. and "philos, writer, physicist, healer, programmer, lover, more" is specialization also. any label is. you would have to tote around ALL of infin aargh, shitdown msg from the system...pooey...later.... -- andy ______________________________ From: fly@geog.buffalo.edu (Paul Fly) Subject: Medium: the ultimate virtual massage Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 17:41:03 EST > Writing reduced the dynamic sound world > of the oral culture to quiscent space, it separated the word from the > living present, where alone spoken words can exist. As I've come to understand it, Western Philosophy has long placed the spoken word above the written word in that, for one, *writing* symbolizes *speech*, and is therefore one more step removed from true "presence". Another, speech is dialectic, ongoing, interactive, while writing, it was said, is not. A piece of written text stands alone, impenetrable to discourse. However, the memes of _Dissemination_ have been making their weaselly little way into me, and I now find myself voicing a different opinion. It used to be thought by myself that dialectic *was* "better", and that writing was sub-standard to speech. In this light the Net and the various email lists were viewed by myself as a symbiosis of both: dialectic, discourse, and writing. Pernament and impenetrable, and yet interactive. Now, it is thought by me that speech has no advantage over writing. I myself have found myself voicing myself more to my own satisfaction in writing than speech. This mailing list, and the Net in general, it seems to me, is an ongoing discourse. Mostly in the form of text. I can speak for myself (if sometimes erroneously), and say that, to me, the Net has become an extension of not only my environment, but myself as well. The terrain of the Net is as real to me as the city of Denver. My interaction with the Net has reached the point where it is so integrated into my consciousness and my ways and methods of analyzing myself and my situation, my future, and my plans (my agnst...), that to leave it is to cut off a part of mySELF. I have taken the Net into me... or perhaps it would be better to say, the Net has been taken in by me (passive voice, note). You're all me. -- Paul Fly | "Thinking is more interesting than knowing, but fly@geog.buffalo.edu | less interesting than looking." --Goethe ______________________________ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 93 14:43:48 PDT From: Subject: poem disinformation wants to be free, too those zeroes of yours are some ones someone's inflated and turned round disinformation ones to be threes, two wants it badder than your facts fills you up with broken meme whispers nonsense, its attacks are rarely noticed, often seen be careful what you get you just may ask for it information wants to be free is just a new mutation of this: Talk is cheap. dissin' formation wan stew beef redo ______________________________________________________ Tom Good = tomg@image.com This message is a strain of AUTONYM ______________________________ From: ghoast@gnu.ai.mit.edu Subject: Re: dweebsville (fwd) Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 18:12:47 -0500 (EST) Andy streams cohearantly: > > not to make coolwhip lite of the situation, but it *is* kinda > interesting to note the differences between west coast "futureculture" > (cybercu.lture, but that words is really inappropriate here) and east > coast. > > east is street where west is symposium, east is black where west is > tie-dye. > > geography still matters. Not as much as you seem to believe. I dount really think there are two distinct sectors of "futureculture" interpretation, or if there are in fact two schools of thought existing, I guess it would be more appropriate to label them "happy future" and "dystopian future" rather than classing people by locale . > > i'm smackdAb in the middle, thank god. bicoastal influences reach at > the same time, and here in colorado you can watch trends bounce back > and forth between california and ny, watch them morph. kind of like > what acid house music is to the atlantic ocean. > > -- > > andy > Devin ______________________________ From: sdw@meaddata.com (Stephen Williams) Subject: Re: The SS are comming -help Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 16:23:04 -0500 (EST) .. > Ask him first. if you pulled him into the open without his permision > I dread to think of the legal stuff they could hit you with (I'm a > Brit. so my knowledge of US law is a tad sketchy). Even if they (This is not a flame...) Luckily, it wouldn't even occur to me that exposing identity would be illegal! We (Americans) routinely signal each other about the presence of 'cops' (driving, for instance). We have radar detectors (mostly, some states alternately outlaw/allow), scanners, etc. In some states, it was pointed out to me, you can't even be charged with traffic violations by a plain-car police officer. Of course, there are constant attempts to limit the 'fighting chance'. It was pointed out to me that even walkie-talkies are illegal without a license in Brit.! > didn't Secret Service guys do not make nice enemies. It'll be interesting to see what Steve Jackson gets for being 'inconvienienced' by the SS.... I hope it's mega-bucks.... > > As I said before: Get a witness, if you can get a lawyer, write > evrything down. Be nice to the man. Then tell us what happened. Good > luck. sdw -- Stephen D. Williams Local Internet Gateway Co.; SDW Systems 513 496-5223APager LIG dev./sales Internet: sdw@world.std.com CIS 76244.210@compuserve.com OO R&D Source Dist. By Horse: 10028 Village Tree Ct., Miamisburg, OH 45342 GNU Support ICBM: 39 34N 85 15W I love it when a plan comes together _________________________________________________________________________ | | | That's all for today! | | To send a message to the list: future@nyx.cs.du.edu | | To subscribe/unsubscribe/change format: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | All other requests: future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu | | List Maintainer is: (andy [aka hawkeye]) ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu | |_________________________________________________________________________| | | | The opinions expressed in FutureCulture are those of the individual | | author only. | |_________________________________________________________________________| ______________________________________________________________________ |______________ / | | / | | u t u r e <___________ u l t u r e | _______________________________________________________________________| Issue #256 Wednesday, February 24th 1993 Today's Topics: --------------- A "Futurist" steps out of the closet. CyberElitism coda Internet History Re: cyber elitism Re: dweebsville (fwd) Re: inet history RE: Internet History RE: Internet History Re: The Kids are coming, and boy is it gonna be strange.. Re: