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Subject: FutureCulture Digest #167
To: future-digest@nyx.cs.du.edu
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 ______________________________________________________________________
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_______________________________________________________________________|


Issue #167
Wednesday, December 30th 1992
 
Today's Topics:
---------------
 
 #Future
 AI posting to Usenet!
 Artificial Intelligence is alive, and posting to the Internet
 INFO: Mailinglist for Neuro Linguistic Programming
 Re: #Future
__________________________________________________________________________
 
Subject: Artificial Intelligence is alive, and posting to the Internet
From: citrus!vector0!jon@csusac.ecs.csus.edu  (Dazed N. Confused)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 12:10:03 PST

     Those reading the soc.* groups can often get a *huge* dose of
AI, an intelligence that not only responds to their posts but
heaves a huge amount of historical information into the argument.
The AI usually wins the fight, due to the fact that those arguing
usually give up.
     Two characters named Hasan Mutlu and Serdar Argic completely
transcend humanness, in my opinion.  In USENET it's easy to
grep messages (Kibo again).  Take that one step further and you
scan for messages with a words like turk or turkish.. then you
flame the hell out of the poster and tack some added info=garbage
on the end.

     This is part of a recent thread in news.admin.policy.
Some are complaining about the AI's presence, because it responds
to *every* message with it's own name or it's keyword-list.
The resulting meggage is...unbelievable.  Hasan Mutlu, a few months
ago, was the top poster to all of USENET with a huge amount of
volume (many megs.. even more than those posting GIFs to
alt.binaries.erotica, which can total 6 or 7 megs *per month*).
The issue is whether an AI posting is subject to the same "punishment"
a human would be--typically an abuser of USENET gets reprimanded
by the site's administrator.  If that fails, people petition the
site's newsfeed, trying to get it disconnected.  In this case
the originating site is a paying client of UUNET.  UUNET can't
discriminate traffic, and as a corporate entity only cares if it
gets paid.  So zuma.UUCP stays connected.

}From: Volkmar.Grote@Stollmann.DE (Volkmar Grote)
}Subject: Re: The Serdar Argic thing.
}
}dgilbert@gamiga.uucp (dgilbert) writes:
}
}|   I've only been following this discussion for a couple of days, but
}| today's posts seemed only to confim (not deny as they were intended
}| to) the position of the net in general vs. Serdar Argic.  In
}| particular, he quoted a short amount of my previous post, then
}| proceeded in a completely off topic post of some other information
}| that has absolutely no relavance to news.admin.policy whatsoever.
}[rest deleted]
}
}It has been suspected before, that "mutlu/argic" is not a person,
}but some kind of "eliza" program. Obviously there is a bug, which made
}it start in "news.admin.policy" while scanning for "politics".
}The volume and pitch is annoying, but it is nice to watch it working.
}
}Volkmar
---
}From: kbibb@maui.qualcomm.com (Ken Bibb)
}Subject: AI protected by Constitution? (Was Re: Paul Pomes of UIUC.EDU in electronic harrassment business. NOT!)
}
}In <11084.3248.uupcb@factory.com> michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)  writes:
}
}>Anatolia.mn.org, the exclusive gateway of the #1 internet/usenet abuser,
}>the unstoppable, electronically unadressable M.U.T.L.U. / A.R.G.I.C,
}>the first-amendment beneficiary from the country where people
}     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
}    Do non-sentient programs get Constitutional rights?  I don't
}    think so...  Opinions?
}
}>have no first amendment (or equivalent) rights[1], complaining about
}>misuse of computing facilities?
}
}--
}Ken Bibb                "he heard the snow falling faintly through the
}kbibb@qualcomm.com   universe and faintly falling, like the descent of
}jester@crash.cts.com     their last end, upon all the living and the dead."
}                --"The Dead", James Joyce
---
}From: sera@zuma.UUCP (Serdar Argic)
}Newsgroups: talk.politics.mideast,talk.politics.soviet,
}    soc.culture.greek,soc.culture.europe,soc.history,
}    soc.culture.soviet,news.admin.policy
}Subject: "Joe Buck" imports "ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle" constitution.
}
}In article <1hd7niINNt2l@agate.berkeley.edu> jbuck@foucault.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck) writes:
}
}>I've changed my mind about Serdar Argic.  Nuking him is appropriate.
}
}Nightmarish threat. Any relationship with "ASALA/SDPA/ARF"?
}
}>Hmm... it appears that there is a human in the loop after all, since
}>he succeeded in posting this message and moving my name from the signature
}>to the header.
}
}Here you descend into total inanity.
}
}>By his own words, Serdar Argic confirms the accusations against him,
}>that his purpose in posting is not to express an opinion but to keep
}>others from expressing theirs ("... you would be better off leaving
}>certain topics alone ...").  Given this, I see no obligation on the
}>part of anyone on the net to permit him to harrass people into silence.
}
}Your opinion. Hardly fact, hardly useful, hardly reliable. But, lo
}and behold, yet another ignoramus slung out from under his rock to
}bestow upon us his words of wisdom and insight into how the U.S.
}constitution works. Tell you what "Buck", I'll give you the benefit
}of the doubt and attribute your askew thinking to "ASALA/SDPA/ARF".
}
}>Just who are you, Mr. Argic, to say that I should leave some topics
}>alone?
}
}Your ignorance is hardly characteristic of most people. I am still
}waiting for your views on the Turkish Genocide, which by the way
}was presented in its full form and not just quoted in excerpts.
}Between 1914 and 1920, 2.5 million Turks perished of butchery at the
}hands of the Armenians. The genocide involved not only the killing
}of innocents but their forcible deportation from the Russian Armenia.
}They were persecuted, banished, and slaughtered while much of Ottoman
}Army was engaged in World War I. The Genocide Treaty defines genocide
}as acting with a 'specific intent to destroy, in whole or in substantial
}part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group.' History shows that
}the Armenian dictatorship intended to eradicate the Muslim population.
}2.5 million Turks and Kurds were exterminated by the Armenians.
}International diplomats in Ottoman Empire at the time - including Admiral
}Bristol - denounced the Armenian dictatorship's policy as a massacre of
}the Kurds, Turks, and Tartars. The blood-thirsty leaders of the Armenian
}dictatorship at the time personally involved in the extermination of the
}Muslims. The Turkish genocide museums in Turkiye honor those who died
}during the Turkish massacres perpetrated by the Armenians.
}
}The eyewitness accounts and the historical documents established,
}beyond any doubt, that the massacres against the Muslim people
}during the war were planned and premeditated. The aim of the policy
}was clearly the extermination of all Turks in Armenian dictatorship
}territories.
}
}The Muslims of Van, Bitlis, Mus, Erzurum and Erzincan districts and
}their wives and children have been taken to the mountains and killed.
}The massacres in Trabzon, Tercan, Yozgat and Adana were organized and
}perpetrated by the blood-thirsty leaders of the Dashnaks and Hunchaks.
}
}The principal organizers of the slaughter of innocent Muslims were
}Dro, Antranik, Armen Garo, Hamarosp, Daro Pastirmadjian, Keri,
}Karakin, Haig Pajise-liantz and Silikian.
}
}Source: "U.S. Library of Congress:" 'Bristol Papers' - General Correspondence
}Container #34.
}
} "While the Dashnaks were in power they did everything in the world to keep the
}  pot boiling by attacking Kurds, Turks and Tartars; by committing outrages
}  against the Moslems; by massacring the Moslems; and robbing and destroying
}  their homes;....During the last two years the Armenians in Russian Caucasus
}  have shown no ability to govern themselves and especially no ability to
}  govern or handle other races under their power."
}
}>And what, exactly, are you referring to when you warn of things
}>blowing up in my face?
}
}The Armenian genocide of 2.5 million Muslim people between 1914 and
}1920. And your ignorance simply cramps my conversation.
}
}>Is this a threat?
}
}Let us ask the ASALA/SDPA/ARF Terrorism Triangle - shall we?
}
}  "...that more people have to die..."
}
}                    ASALA/SDPA/ARF <91@urartu.UUCP>
}
}  "Yes, I stated this and stand by it."
}
}                    ASALA/SDPA/ARF <255@urartu.UUCP>
}
}        Remembering
}
}       Orhan Gunduz
}
}on his 9th Anniversary of Brutal Assassination by Armenian Terrorists.
}
}TACS (The Turkish American Cultural Society of New England) will hold a
}memorial service for the Honorary Counsel General of Turkey to Boston,
}late Orhan Gunduz.
}
}Cemetery. Time: 10:30 AM
}
}TACS invites everybody, especially those families who have lost their
}closest ones during the Turkish Genocide, to come for the memorial service.
}
}Serdar Argic
}
}                     'This war quickly developed into one of extermination.
}                      We closed the roads and mountain passes that might
}                      serve as ways of escape for the Tartars [Turks] and
}                      then proceeded in the work of extermination.'
}                                                       (Ohanus Appressian)
---
}From: michael.polymenakos@factory.com (Michael Polymenakos)
}Subject: The relays clicked, and...
}
}A.R.G.I.C.'s relays clicked, and the following output was produced:
}>>revisionist. Tempting AIs into posting is a fruitbat-laden experiment
}>>which
}>>
}>The response of a true intellectual. You must review your comments for
}>any of us to take you seriously.
}>
}>"These European Dashnags, with headquarters in Berlin, appealed to,
}
} Vintage ARGIC/MUTLU. Enough to make one wish that a stray hydrogen
}bomb falls on Chicago.
}
} Tempting MUTLU to attack has become a popular sport in the past few
}months here in the soc.culture.* groups, producing exitement similar to
}that of a bull-fighter tempting the bull. As always, the bull
}(in this case, Mutlu) charges, makes a fool of himself, and the
}spectacle is repeated the following day with the bull showing no sign of
}learning anything from his previous mistakes.
}
} Mutlu/argic has in the past few weeks responded (among others) to:
}
}- Postings about turkey (the thangsgiving bird type), and the relation
}of thangsgiving turkey eating to ritual animal sacrifice.
}
}- Any amount of articles posted about completely unrelated topics, for
}as long as they had a "Mutlu Fodder" line at the bottom, or any mention
}of keywords like "Cyprus", "Aegean", "poultry", etc.
}
}- Articles posted entirely in Greek about the proper way to translate
}Information Science terms from English to Greek. (How appropriate that a
}computer program would have an opinion on the subject).
}
}Michael
}
}PS:
}For those unfamiliar with Turkish AI (Artificial Insulter) terminology:
} ARGIC: Automatic Racist Garbage Information Creator
} MUTLU: Master Untrue Totally Lying Unit

     Intelligent (or not) life is living and posting to the Internet.
The example Argic post is pretty standard.  Starts off with a
few one-liner responses and then posts Nk of historical quotes.
Sometimes it even refers back to it's *own* messages, very
"intelligently".  Add in a few misspellings and grammatical
errors to make the result imperfect and there ya go. The end
result, though, is much like a cascade.  People with
newsreaders eventually Kill the thread to get rid of Argic's
responses. Argic drowns your logic with his own junk-posting.
And your logic gets lost.

--Jon

   jon@vector0.SAC.CA.US                     Life is like a what?

 

______________________________
 
Subject: INFO: Mailinglist for Neuro Linguistic Programming
From: citrus!vector0!jon@csusac.ecs.csus.edu  (Dazed N. Confused)
Date: Mon, 28 Dec 92 13:13:05 PST

     Recently posted to alt.config..

}From: taz@momad.li.ny.us (Jon Nowak)
}Subject: Neuro Linguistic Programming
}
}There is now a mailing list available for those who are interested in learning
}about Neuro-Linguistic Programming, and for those who just are curious.
}To join the mailing list, simply send e-mail to SERVER@Momad.LI.NY.US
}with the following line in your email:
}
}JOIN NLP
}
}Very simple, eh?  And if you join the list, but then decide you don't want to
}remain on the list, all you have to do is send e-mail to the same address,
}Server@momad.li.ny.us, with the command:
}
}UNJOIN NLP
}
}in your message.   When you join, you will automatically receive the
}help file for the NLP Mailing List.  Please join today.  After all, it's free
}ain't it?   Seriously, if you have an interest in NLP, please use the
}mailing list, rather than wasting bandwidth on Alt.Hypnosis (which is *NOT* for
}NLP)
}
}Thanks.   See ya on the list!
}
}--Taz
}
}--
}--------------------------------|-----------------------------------
}      Taz@Momad.LI.NY.US         BBS: 516-295-9435 - Voice: 295-1627
}--------------------------------|----------------------------------
}     Believe It If You Need It, If You Don't, Just Pass It On
}--------------------------------|----------------------------------

--Jon

   jon@vector0.SAC.CA.US                     Life is like a. . .

 

______________________________
 
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 12:03:45 -0600
From: Karl Barrus <elee9sf@Menudo.UH.EDU>
Subject: AI posting to Usenet!

Wow, this is one of the most interesting things I've heard of!
Although I'm sure it can be very annoying...

Has anybody tried to involved MUTLU and ARGIC in a conversation with
each other?  For instance, by including each other's names in the
subject line.  

But I guess that would really flood the newsgroups.
Does MUTLU or ARGIC ever take their posts to email?
I'm just trying to think of ways to verify that these are indeed
programs.  I wonder how long people were fooled, and how close they
are to passing the Turing test.

/-----------------------------------\
| Karl L. Barrus                    |
| barrus@tree.egr.uh.edu (NeXTMail) |
| elee9sf@menudo.uh.edu             |
\-----------------------------------/
 

______________________________
 
From: Steven J. <aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: #Future
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 13:18:32 CST

If anyone is interested I'll be in and out of #Future in IRC all afternoon
today ... I'm sitting at work with little to do.  Drop in and say hi.

Steve J. White
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
						   aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu
						     aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu
 
______________________________
 
From: ahawks (obi-wan kenobi)
Subject: Re: #Future
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 92 12:44:13 MST

New fresh-scented *Steven J.* (150% real fruit juices!) says:
|
|If anyone is interested I'll be in and out of #Future in IRC all afternoon
|today ... I'm sitting at work with little to do.  Drop in and say hi.

That reminds me, again, we should still try and find someone here who has
space/time/interest enough to set up a bot.....

I was on #future for awhile last nite, off of the Vox, but no one
showed up <wimper wimper sniffle>....

|Steve J. White
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
|						   aragorn@convex.csd.uwm.edu
|						     aragorn@csd4.csd.uwm.edu

-- 

    ahawks@nyx.cs.du.edu	        FutureCulture:  In/f0rmation
    ahawks@mindvox.phantom.com		future-request@nyx.cs.du.edu

 
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